to "s" or not, that is my question
01-24-2008, 02:38 PM
#32
The Penguin King
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Interesting story. Purchased the 997 S used. Was not a member of this forum prior to purchase and didn't know to ask for DME report. When I had some serious mechanical trouble within weeks of pick-up (clutch and trans had to be replaced), I started to wonder about abuse it may have suffered by prior owner (got it with 13K miles).
I requested a DME report and the car had been beat on. Type 1 & 2 overrevs were in the thousands and type 3 & 4 were in the hundreds. When I brought this to the dealers attention they said "how can we make you happy". They basically gave me back my money on the 997S and sold me a new C2 with a very solid discount (9%).
The price diff was negligible which was a factor in the decision making process, but also the options on the 997S which accounted for the high price (original MSRP $96000) were things I learned I really didn't want or need. Those being nav, PASM, 19s, short shift. It also had PSE which I miss, but from the recent thread on problems with PSE I'm glad I don't have it now. The only options on the C2 are heated seats, crests in headrest and bi-xenon.
So far I haven't missed the power diff but I am still in the 2K break-in period. The ride is better without the PASM/19s vs. the 18s.
I requested a DME report and the car had been beat on. Type 1 & 2 overrevs were in the thousands and type 3 & 4 were in the hundreds. When I brought this to the dealers attention they said "how can we make you happy". They basically gave me back my money on the 997S and sold me a new C2 with a very solid discount (9%).
The price diff was negligible which was a factor in the decision making process, but also the options on the 997S which accounted for the high price (original MSRP $96000) were things I learned I really didn't want or need. Those being nav, PASM, 19s, short shift. It also had PSE which I miss, but from the recent thread on problems with PSE I'm glad I don't have it now. The only options on the C2 are heated seats, crests in headrest and bi-xenon.
So far I haven't missed the power diff but I am still in the 2K break-in period. The ride is better without the PASM/19s vs. the 18s.
Not to pick on one guy, but just to point out that the truth is that nearly all of the folks taking sides on the ad-nauseum S vs Non-S debate are pretty biased by the need to feel good about the purchase they have made (self included). Let's hear from one person who has moved in either direction (S to non-S, or non-S to S), and thinks the car they got rid of was the better of the two...
It is a pointless debate. Potential buyers should (as has been said before) drive both and make up their minds about what suits their needs & budget.
01-24-2008, 02:43 PM
#33
Three Wheelin'
01-24-2008, 03:06 PM
#34
ok, I bought the non S because I am a cheapo and did not want to spend the extra $5K (I have Xenon) for the extra hp I will never use. Instead, I spent the money on a Cab. Every once in a while I would regret not to get the "red brake" and the "S" in the *** but once I have the top down, nothing matters.
01-24-2008, 03:49 PM
#35
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So did you chose the non-S because it was a better car, or did you get a good deal on the non-S, and THEN decide it was a better car? I'm hearing two messages here.
Not to pick on one guy, but just to point out that the truth is that nearly all of the folks taking sides on the ad-nauseum S vs Non-S debate are pretty biased by the need to feel good about the purchase they have made (self included). Let's hear from one person who has moved in either direction (S to non-S, or non-S to S), and thinks the car they got rid of was the better of the two...
It is a pointless debate. Potential buyers should (as has been said before) drive both and make up their minds about what suits their needs & budget.
Not to pick on one guy, but just to point out that the truth is that nearly all of the folks taking sides on the ad-nauseum S vs Non-S debate are pretty biased by the need to feel good about the purchase they have made (self included). Let's hear from one person who has moved in either direction (S to non-S, or non-S to S), and thinks the car they got rid of was the better of the two...
It is a pointless debate. Potential buyers should (as has been said before) drive both and make up their minds about what suits their needs & budget.
Before I bought the "S", I was the type who was always reading car magazines and wanted the next great thing. I was especially interested in 0-60 times, lap times, braking distances etc. That drove me to buy the "S". After owning it I realized I wasn't racing anyone, wasn't tracking the car and most of my performance goals were simply ridiculous. When the mechanical problems occurred and I wasn't comfortable with the car I used my new found knowledge in making the decision to get the "base" car. Having owned the "S" and then test driving the base I preferred the 18s, no PASM, didn't miss the power at all (test drove a C2 that was broken in not the new one I was getting) and preferred the engines power delivery over the 3.8L. I test drove both C2 and C2S demos back to back to back....
I preferred the base car and bought it. I could have gotten an "S" but it wasn't worth the price difference. Now after having owned both for some time I would get the C2 price independent.
As I've said here many times over the last few months the experts seem to feel the base car is the better car.
You seem to think I'm trying to justify my purchase, rather I'm trying to assist the poster and answer his inquiry. I don't care if you prefer your model to mine, we've never met and likely never will.
01-24-2008, 03:50 PM
#36
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ok, I bought the non S because I am a cheapo and did not want to spend the extra $5K (I have Xenon) for the extra hp I will never use. Instead, I spent the money on a Cab. Every once in a while I would regret not to get the "red brake" and the "S" in the *** but once I have the top down, nothing matters.
01-24-2008, 07:20 PM
#37
The Penguin King
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You're not picking on me, it's a legitimate question.
Before I bought the "S", I was the type who was always reading car magazines and wanted the next great thing. I was especially interested in 0-60 times, lap times, braking distances etc. That drove me to buy the "S". After owning it I realized I wasn't racing anyone, wasn't tracking the car and most of my performance goals were simply ridiculous. When the mechanical problems occurred and I wasn't comfortable with the car I used my new found knowledge in making the decision to get the "base" car. Having owned the "S" and then test driving the base I preferred the 18s, no PASM, didn't miss the power at all (test drove a C2 that was broken in not the new one I was getting) and preferred the engines power delivery over the 3.8L. I test drove both C2 and C2S demos back to back to back....
I preferred the base car and bought it. I could have gotten an "S" but it wasn't worth the price difference. Now after having owned both for some time I would get the C2 price independent.
As I've said here many times over the last few months the experts seem to feel the base car is the better car.
You seem to think I'm trying to justify my purchase, rather I'm trying to assist the poster and answer his inquiry. I don't care if you prefer your model to mine, we've never met and likely never will.
Before I bought the "S", I was the type who was always reading car magazines and wanted the next great thing. I was especially interested in 0-60 times, lap times, braking distances etc. That drove me to buy the "S". After owning it I realized I wasn't racing anyone, wasn't tracking the car and most of my performance goals were simply ridiculous. When the mechanical problems occurred and I wasn't comfortable with the car I used my new found knowledge in making the decision to get the "base" car. Having owned the "S" and then test driving the base I preferred the 18s, no PASM, didn't miss the power at all (test drove a C2 that was broken in not the new one I was getting) and preferred the engines power delivery over the 3.8L. I test drove both C2 and C2S demos back to back to back....
I preferred the base car and bought it. I could have gotten an "S" but it wasn't worth the price difference. Now after having owned both for some time I would get the C2 price independent.
As I've said here many times over the last few months the experts seem to feel the base car is the better car.
You seem to think I'm trying to justify my purchase, rather I'm trying to assist the poster and answer his inquiry. I don't care if you prefer your model to mine, we've never met and likely never will.
btw, every rennlister I've met in person, I've liked!Oh &, the debate is still meaningless!
01-24-2008, 07:25 PM
#38
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I agree on #2, but if the debate helps others what the hell.
Maybe we will meet someday, but it won't be soon - since my beloved Dallas Cowboys lost to the Giants any Texas trips next season have been canceled!
01-24-2008, 07:38 PM
#39
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rfedele-
I've always read your posts about the difference between the two models and thought you had the most cogent input. They should be read by anyone considering buying their first 997 before assuming the "S" is the only one for them.
I've always read your posts about the difference between the two models and thought you had the most cogent input. They should be read by anyone considering buying their first 997 before assuming the "S" is the only one for them.
01-24-2008, 09:12 PM
#40
I think it depends on how you option the 997 over the S is concerned. If you want the 19's, PASM and Xenons then IMHO you might as well and pony up the 2-3k more and get the S. If you don't want these you can't go wrong with a non S. I drove both and felt the non S revved faster but the S had a broader tq. curve and felt much more fat in the midrange. The non S I drove had PASM and the 19" lobsters so handling it pretty much felt the same as the S. I chose the S as I wanted those options and since there is no replacement for displacement get the S if that's the case.
Dave
Dave
01-24-2008, 10:27 PM
#41
^^^You took the words right out of my mouth. I had to have bi-xenons and 19s. Add the PASM, quad exhaust, and red brake callipers plus extra hp and i was sold. Unless one wants a completely option-free/base carrera, the additional options one gets with the "s" make for a compelling argument to spend the extra cash imo. Bottom line, get what you can afford. I mean seriously, how many on this site with base carreras have buyer's remorse? Based on the monthly debates between s and base aficionados i'd say not too many.
btw, props on the avatar
btw, props on the avatar