Tip vs 6spd
11-28-2007, 04:37 PM
#31
Burning Brakes
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It's not just "tip-bashing". I have the same extremely low opinion of Ferrari's so-called F1, and Lambo's "egear". imo, the only valid justification for having it in a sports car is a physical disability. That said, Porsches are becoming GTs (except, oddly, the "GT" cars) and in that case, an automatic makes perfect sense.
11-28-2007, 04:53 PM
#32
Three Wheelin'
Drive both and then decide. Everyone here is going to have their biases, many of which are founded on long-standing sports car ideals that really are nothing more than a perception of what a sports car should be according to them rather than what necessarily will be both enjoyable and practical to you.
11-28-2007, 05:25 PM
#33
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I bought Stick instead of Tip.
* resale (can't imagine I would but, history repeating and all that)
* Choice - I just can't imagine an auto Porsche esp with no DSG or proper paddle system, if it is a turbo I bet it is quicker than stick though
Something I did notice when I drove my C2S in traffic. Compared to my other P-Cars the transmission is just as friendly if not more so and the torque of the 3.8 makes it easier to stay in a gear and not have to shift in slow traffic. In stop and go it is still a stick but take-up is nice and it is very easy to drive IMHO.
Drive one in traffic... it is such a personal choice and opinions vary as do tastes.
Get a tip, get a stick... they are all fantastic in their own ways I am sure...
* resale (can't imagine I would but, history repeating and all that)
* Choice - I just can't imagine an auto Porsche esp with no DSG or proper paddle system, if it is a turbo I bet it is quicker than stick though
Something I did notice when I drove my C2S in traffic. Compared to my other P-Cars the transmission is just as friendly if not more so and the torque of the 3.8 makes it easier to stay in a gear and not have to shift in slow traffic. In stop and go it is still a stick but take-up is nice and it is very easy to drive IMHO.
Drive one in traffic... it is such a personal choice and opinions vary as do tastes.
Get a tip, get a stick... they are all fantastic in their own ways I am sure...
11-28-2007, 08:55 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
I drive a Tiptronic to appease the other half, but it's not a good match for a 997 on a few levels, nor a particularly good automatic transmission by 2008 standards. Biggest gripes:
- Always starts in 2nd, effectively making it a 4 speed automatic. In 2008, that's pathetic.
- Thumb switches are not well placed, and there is no console shifting ability.
- In automatic mode in daily driving, it will always be in as high a gear as possible, lugging the motor.
- In daily driving, shifts are slow and slurred compared to just about every other modern automatic.
- Does not blip throttle on downshifts...now a feature on most 'performance' automatics, even those costing a lot less.
- Two of the biggest reliability issues I've had with the car in 28k miles have been Tiptronic-related.
The 997 is a relatively stiff sports car, and the automatic doesn't mesh with it. What makes it worse is that the clutch, pedal placement, gearing, and shifter in the 997 are sublime. If you have to have an automatic, I'd look at a Jaguar XK or MB SL.
I've used it on the track, and it's definitely not faster than a well-driven manual due to its poor gearing with only 5 speeds.
Tiptronics are no worse for resale, however...I wouldn't say it's better, because it's a very expensive option...but at least here in Los Angeles, demand is higher for Tips.
- Always starts in 2nd, effectively making it a 4 speed automatic. In 2008, that's pathetic.
- Thumb switches are not well placed, and there is no console shifting ability.
- In automatic mode in daily driving, it will always be in as high a gear as possible, lugging the motor.
- In daily driving, shifts are slow and slurred compared to just about every other modern automatic.
- Does not blip throttle on downshifts...now a feature on most 'performance' automatics, even those costing a lot less.
- Two of the biggest reliability issues I've had with the car in 28k miles have been Tiptronic-related.
The 997 is a relatively stiff sports car, and the automatic doesn't mesh with it. What makes it worse is that the clutch, pedal placement, gearing, and shifter in the 997 are sublime. If you have to have an automatic, I'd look at a Jaguar XK or MB SL.
I've used it on the track, and it's definitely not faster than a well-driven manual due to its poor gearing with only 5 speeds.
Tiptronics are no worse for resale, however...I wouldn't say it's better, because it's a very expensive option...but at least here in Los Angeles, demand is higher for Tips.
11-28-2007, 09:23 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Alan brings up an interesting thing about the 997 tip: there is no manual mode on the console, just the thumb rockers. Our Cayenne's tip has the thumb rockers AND the ability to "+" and "-" on the console.
I truly enjoy driving the Cayenne and am very impressed with how it seems to know when I don't want it to automatically shift.
I'm looking forward to seeing what the PDK has to offer next year: personally I wouldn't mind having an "automatic" at times as I drive 95% of the time in Boston traffic.
I truly enjoy driving the Cayenne and am very impressed with how it seems to know when I don't want it to automatically shift.
I'm looking forward to seeing what the PDK has to offer next year: personally I wouldn't mind having an "automatic" at times as I drive 95% of the time in Boston traffic.
11-29-2007, 06:25 PM
#36
I drive a Tiptronic to appease the other half, but it's not a good match for a 997 on a few levels, nor a particularly good automatic transmission by 2008 standards. Biggest gripes:
- Always starts in 2nd, effectively making it a 4 speed automatic. In 2008, that's pathetic.
- Thumb switches are not well placed, and there is no console shifting ability.
- In automatic mode in daily driving, it will always be in as high a gear as possible, lugging the motor.
- In daily driving, shifts are slow and slurred compared to just about every other modern automatic.
- Does not blip throttle on downshifts...now a feature on most 'performance' automatics, even those costing a lot less.
- Two of the biggest reliability issues I've had with the car in 28k miles have been Tiptronic-related.
The 997 is a relatively stiff sports car, and the automatic doesn't mesh with it. What makes it worse is that the clutch, pedal placement, gearing, and shifter in the 997 are sublime. If you have to have an automatic, I'd look at a Jaguar XK or MB SL.
I've used it on the track, and it's definitely not faster than a well-driven manual due to its poor gearing with only 5 speeds.
Tiptronics are no worse for resale, however...I wouldn't say it's better, because it's a very expensive option...but at least here in Los Angeles, demand is higher for Tips.
- Always starts in 2nd, effectively making it a 4 speed automatic. In 2008, that's pathetic.
- Thumb switches are not well placed, and there is no console shifting ability.
- In automatic mode in daily driving, it will always be in as high a gear as possible, lugging the motor.
- In daily driving, shifts are slow and slurred compared to just about every other modern automatic.
- Does not blip throttle on downshifts...now a feature on most 'performance' automatics, even those costing a lot less.
- Two of the biggest reliability issues I've had with the car in 28k miles have been Tiptronic-related.
The 997 is a relatively stiff sports car, and the automatic doesn't mesh with it. What makes it worse is that the clutch, pedal placement, gearing, and shifter in the 997 are sublime. If you have to have an automatic, I'd look at a Jaguar XK or MB SL.
I've used it on the track, and it's definitely not faster than a well-driven manual due to its poor gearing with only 5 speeds.
Tiptronics are no worse for resale, however...I wouldn't say it's better, because it's a very expensive option...but at least here in Los Angeles, demand is higher for Tips.
11-29-2007, 09:01 PM
#38
Burning Brakes
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11-29-2007, 09:36 PM
#39
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I never thought I would own a tip. I called them "mall cruisers". My wife wanted a SL550 last year. I conceded. I was taking the SL in for warranty issues so often, I began to hate just looking at it. We both drive in LA traffic often. The only way I could justify taking the loss and buying a new 997 as a daily driver was with a tip. I dumped the SL 500 pig and bought a 997 "mall cruiser". I love it!!!...And so does she I'm not going to set any track records, but a spirited drive through the Santa Monica MTNs after breakfast is still a lot of fun.
I'm not going to set any track records, but a spirited drive through the Santa Monica MTNs after breakfast is still a lot of fun.
11-29-2007, 10:35 PM
#40
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Not quite, the tip will indeed start in first with a moderate amount of throttle (an immediate downshift which also locks up the torque converter, plus it's just as easy to paddle shift into 1st and it will hold it as needed). The other thing is that the tip does get extra gas on downshifts - it's not a full on blip, but it's enough to prevent wheel lock. It's also very easy to give a little prod on the throttle yourself if you wanted to give a little extra. As I said in an earlier post, it takes time to get to know how to get the best out of the tip.
11-30-2007, 03:47 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Not sure what year or 997 model you have, but mine will not, under any circumstances other than a cold start, take off in first gear.
Sure, you can work around some of the Tiptronic's deficiencies...but my point was that with other modern automatics from BMW, MB, etc., you don't have to. And there is nothing that will bring back the extra gear ratio you give up or shed the extra pounds the Tiptronic adds.
Sure, you can work around some of the Tiptronic's deficiencies...but my point was that with other modern automatics from BMW, MB, etc., you don't have to. And there is nothing that will bring back the extra gear ratio you give up or shed the extra pounds the Tiptronic adds.
11-30-2007, 04:43 PM
#43
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Not sure what year or 997 model you have, but mine will not, under any circumstances other than a cold start, take off in first gear.
Sure, you can work around some of the Tiptronic's deficiencies...but my point was that with other modern automatics from BMW, MB, etc., you don't have to. And there is nothing that will bring back the extra gear ratio you give up or shed the extra pounds the Tiptronic adds.
Sure, you can work around some of the Tiptronic's deficiencies...but my point was that with other modern automatics from BMW, MB, etc., you don't have to. And there is nothing that will bring back the extra gear ratio you give up or shed the extra pounds the Tiptronic adds.
Last edited by swajames; 11-30-2007 at 05:01 PM.
11-30-2007, 04:46 PM
#44
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None taken, although I'm not sure it's your choice of transmission that determines whether or not you are a driving enthusiast any more than owning a great car automatically makes one a great driver.
Last edited by swajames; 11-30-2007 at 05:05 PM.
12-01-2007, 12:21 PM
#45
Burning Brakes
I think I am one of those older guys....
Almost 50, kid out to college, Mercedes owner. Now I am getting a 2007 Targa4 (no S) with a Tip. Not interested in racing thus didn't want to dish out for the S or the chrono package. I wanted little creature comfort..heated seats/elec adjustible seats, Bose...I am also planing of using the car something between a weekend driver and a daily driver and a little too lazy to be shifting gears after a hard days work.
Now if I were a little younger with a little more tetosterone and with a little more money and without a honey..I would take the most powerfull 911 coupe with the least options with a manual over a Targa that I am trying to castrate an making it feel like a Benz.
As a future Tip owner I am still an enthuiastic driver....but not the track racing kind.....hell, I didn't even know I could take my car to a track floor it (what else can you expect from a benz owner). I am afraid that if I ever did that I would get rid of the Targa and do something silly like buying a Turbo or something...yep my wife would really like that and Fido and I would be sharing the same bed. Then again, maybe the honey can go out with the Targa too.
abe
Now if I were a little younger with a little more tetosterone and with a little more money and without a honey..I would take the most powerfull 911 coupe with the least options with a manual over a Targa that I am trying to castrate an making it feel like a Benz.
As a future Tip owner I am still an enthuiastic driver....but not the track racing kind.....hell, I didn't even know I could take my car to a track floor it (what else can you expect from a benz owner). I am afraid that if I ever did that I would get rid of the Targa and do something silly like buying a Turbo or something...yep my wife would really like that and Fido and I would be sharing the same bed. Then again, maybe the honey can go out with the Targa too.
abe