uzj100

https://www.mydealerreport.com

http://www.dealershipratings.com

http://www.dealerrater.com/search/?q=porsche

These links might be helpful?

cviles

I think you're missing an important variable: Whether you're buying off the lot or ordering a car. It's probably easier to get a bigger discount if you're negotiating on a car on their lot, though.

I got about 7% off an ordered car from N. Olmsted (including shipping my trade and the car from Ohio to Texas). Plus they were easy and pleasant to work with, which counts just as much as money in my book.

Edgy01

I can't say that the C4S will be a less discounted car but it certainly is not a favorite. Most buyers have figured out the 997 by now to realize that they will do well with the 2-wheel drive cars and the 4s are overkill. Thus, less will be produced and less demanded. When you think about it, will people really be driving their $100K 4s on the salt-ladden roads when others are out there with their rust buckets aiming for you at every intersection...

gary mermel

But as long as demand outstrips supply, the prices will hold up. It's a relative thing.

As for winter use, I may regret it, but having my AWD car totalled and "having" to drive my 996 every day, I don't want to put my Porsche away for 4 months out of the year any more. If I have to pay for that privilege with some undercarriage wear or rock chips, that's part of the cost of ownership. And if my 996 had less pristine paint and 50,000 more miles, I'm guessing it would be worth $5000 less than it is, far less than the depreciation I experienced on the winter cars that were "protecting" it.

Baggerdude

I had my C4S ordered January and delivered in March. Chris, Chad and Bernie at Porsche of North Olmsted were really terrific to deal with. I get a new car every year or two and usually several in between. I'm going back there in 2008 for a new one.

I called Bernie and he gave me 7% 'over the phone' on the C4S that stickered north of $105K. I'm pretty fine with that. Best deal in Hartford was "sticker +". Screw that.

I'm not sure I agree with those that say the the C4S is "over kill". I love the way the car looks .... especially from the rear end, eh. That's why I bought this particular model. I don't give a rat's pi toot about AWD in the winter .... hell, I have a Ford 4x4 F150 for that fare. But, that said, I also will drive the C4S anytime the snow is off the road. It's great in rain, too.

I didn't buy the C4S ... I rent it. I don't run it thru salt banks in the winter. I drive it on dry roads. Yeah, maybe it's "down" for a few weeks in winter here in New England, but so are my 993 C4S and my Z3 ... and several motorcycles, too.

I'd think that the discount will continue to improve as the MY winds down. Just my opinion. But, if you are looking for a car I would think that buying a car off the lot would be less than ordering one ... and buying a pre owned would be even less. Sorta logical, eh?

BTW, there are many 997s on lots all over the country. I'd call around. The phone calls are cheap ... even free. Explain what you want in the car .... ask what they have ... and then ask what they will do. If you don't like the deal .... dial another number. But, let me say this. At this level ... 7% is nice, but if you have the bucks to buy a $100K+ car, don't sweat the small stuff.

SilverSteel

I've looked at every single Porsche dealer's site in North America. I only want yellow, maybe blue. They stick so many things on the car I don't want, and skip the things I do want. I love C4's, but prefer C2's. I want an S. I want a cab. Well, the lots are getting empty now. I've always bought off the lot and gotten very good deals--no regrets. But I want something more custom. Don't get me wrong, if I can find 90% of what I want-done!

I called Bernie and he hit me with around 5%. I told him I could get a better deal here and save the shipping. I asked he reconsider and get back. Nothing! I'm sort of disappointed some of the guys sit around and wait for people to walk in and buy a car. Man, if I were selling I wouldn't let the serious guys run off. I fax the specs and ask for a good price. I get everything from 1% off to nothing. That's okay. I don't mind working a little.

Sure, 5% or 7% is no biggie, but when some have received up to 9%, I cannot accept 5% and feel good about it knowing I'll get crushed on resale. Yes, I will be selling it one day. They won't be burying me with the car.

I had a Silver 997S cab in mint condition with many options and it took nearly 5 months to sell the car. I used autotrader, cars.com, ebay, yahoo cars and the local paper. I was aggressive and sold it for a good price. These cars can be hard to move. Let's face it, not everyone can afford them.

I'll try Bernie once more since you praise him, but I'm not optimistic. I'll let you know...Bill

mglobe

I don't know about the rest of the guys who got relatively big discounts, but I know I was flexible on what was in the car to some extent. I had two colors I wanted, and would take either. I had a list of things I had to have, things I could take or leave, and things I would not accept in the car. I told the dealers what these things were, and let them look for cars that fit. I think the pickier you are with what you want in the car, the less discount you are likely to get. Nothing wrong with that. If you have to have a certain car, get it. Just expect to pay more. Have you had any luck with Beasley in Austin?

Baggerdude

Bill ....

Yes, Bernie, Chad, and Chris were great to me. That was last JANUARY ! I was ordering a car and spec'd it out to my wishes. The car was not yellow. I think that my car is EZr to move/resell than a yellow car. But, that is just my opinion.

Bernie and Chad were very nice to me. I didn't need 7% .... it may have been 7.5% (I think it was) ... but, Bernie tossed me some stuff I liked.

I flew in from CT .... they picked me up at the airport in a TurboS Cayenne (that they could not move). Chris spent about 2 hours going over the car with me explaining all the new stuff that I didn't have in previous cars. Then the dude who hooked up my Sirius radio went over that stuff. I don't think that this is 'normal install' ... the Sirius is retrofitted into the NAV system and is seamless. They do lot's of the pro ball player's stuff, so they have lots of experience.

Bernie installed my Valentine One 'free of charge' .... all hard wired to the top console like the board likes. They also installed some clear side markers 'free of charge', too. They gave me a map and told me to put a couple hundred miles on the car and see if all worked fine. It did ... and still does. Then, Bernie put me up at the Ritz Carlton for the evening on PNO's tab. I even had room service, altho I don't think the meal was more than $70 with tip.

Here's the deal. The difference between 7% and 5% on a $100K car is 2Gs. What is that? Yeah, it's 2Gs ... but, I'm into service and how the deal makes me feel. I LOVED how I was treated at PNO. You could always come to HTFD and see how they treat you. I have an idea. Bring your own KY.

At the end of a MY, the 'wiggle room' on an ordered car is less than earlier in the year. I was told that the C4S model was not going to be made after like Feb/'07. I could be taken on a ride here. But, PNO said my C4S was one of the last made for the USA. Maybe so, maybe not. It was the last C4S they said they would be getting in allocation for MY'07.

I think that since the next model year is starting to work it's way forward and the present MY is probably not being made in many numbers (I may be incorrect), that you should call 'round and find what's available. I wouldn't be so specific as to this color, this interior, this style, these options, yada, yada. But, make a list of "must haves" and see what's available. BTW, there are cars available on 'buy this lease' type of sites all the time. They change from time to time so that's a possibility, too.

Or, wait until December and order what you want. You may get the deal you want.

SilverSteel

Bagger, I agree completely with you on everything you said. My last 997s Cab was silver black, considered to be one of the most desireable colors, along with black. My point is, it still took 5 months to move the car and it was in perfect condiiton.

My order car will probably be yellow, possibly blue with tan, but not likely. Yeah, I think it will be harder to move. But if you equip it right, it can certainly help. I'm still puzzled by how long it takes to move these cars. Porsche is dumping a lot of them on the market and I'm certain that's contributing. Look at the turbos and GT2 and 3s, they hold their value much better as they have a far more limited production. I can't drive them. I feel to cramped up in the car. Yeah I can get a turbo, but it's too much power for me, imo.

My car when all spec'd will be around 118. You never make money selling, so you must save going in. You're right, $2g's isn't a lot of money, but 2% of 118 is over $4g's (the difference of buying a car at 4% vs 6% off. 6g's can buy me a nice trip to Germany. I would say good food too, but I hate their damn food--old bread and weird cheese head strudle. No thanks. I eat all the darn pastries and still lose 5-7lbs every trip. Go figure!

SilverSteel

Okay, rub it in! Why don't you call him for me. Get me 9% and I'll buy you some doughnuts and coffee.

gary mermel

Ya know, it's the supply and demand thing. Again, if they have more buyers than cars they charge more. If they have a car on the lot costing overhead, they want to cut their losses and move it. Those competing influences impact the price we have to pay, and different markets will result in a different result. Smaller markets also get smaller allocations, so they are not neccessarily any more motivated than the big guys with lots of foot traffic in So. Cal.

And Baggerdude, no offense intended at all, but if you kept walkin' in like clockwork and took a car from me with a 13 % priofit built in, I'd be pretty motivated to count some of the prior profits and add them to future profits in determining the margin I'd demand from you. For the sake of the argument, for instance, what kind of deal did you get from them the first time you worked with 'em, and did they know your car buying history before they offered you the deal.

I found Chris at NOP really great to talk to. And maybe rather than telling me he didn't have a good discount for an '08 C4S he was less than honest. But I believed him: allocations were so tight on that model they had NONE scheduled for the fall to even discuss with me.

On the other topic, I appreciate your comments about the C4S being OK in winter, snow or not. Do you run winter tires though?

Baggerdude

Bill ...

I agree with you regarding 2% difference on a $118k car. But, it's only about 2300 bucks. I can't go to FLA for 4 days on that dough ! Anyway, here's the deal for me .... I don't want to get into the "rent vs buy" discussion, but I do lease these cars. I go in with no money down (just doc fees) and walk out with a car. I rarely find a car "on the lot". Mostly, I have spec'd the car to my flavors and order it.

I started to talk to Bernie/Chad in October (I can't remember the lead time ... could be Nov) since I was coming off an M5 lease in Feb. They had an allocation for a C4S ... the model I wanted, too. I asked Bernie what kind of deal he would give me on the specs I had for the C4S and he said 7% over the phone. I was happy with that. Now, if they didn't have an allocation for the C4S, I'd expect less of a deal. (coulda been 7.5% ... think it was ... he makes 7.5% and I get likewise ... still good profit for POE and I'm pretty EZ to deal with)

I was up front with them, too. I said I wanted to lease the car for 2 years and wanted nothing down, no trade and I'd be back to get a new one in 24 months. Now, the reasons I lease are: I write part of the lease/etc. thru my business, I like to get a new car pretty often, I don't want to get stung on trading the car in, I rarely have more than 9k miles per year on the vehicle (other vehicles to drive), it's cheaper monthly for me, yada, yada. Costs me about 2K per month vs 4k per month to buy a 107K car (more or less). I can use/invest the other 2k and make money ... supposedly ... while I'm renting the P-car. Or so it goes.

I used to buy the cars .. P-cars, Mercs, BMWs ... but, when I went back to the dealer I got all these "the market's a bit soft on these cars presently, so we're going to screw you on the trade". Leasing just works better for me. BTW, I saw a perfect C4S (red) in FLA on the lease swapper site for many, many months with incentives before it moved. Don't understand. It was an outstanding car with very low miles and a nice lease, too. (?)

Gary ... I think I answered some of your concerns regarding my deal. I was happy with what PNO gave me. I was prepared to buy a car in Htfd with $500 off!! Whoo - hoo ! I realize that some folks think that Porsche dealers should make 2% on their cars, but I think that's pie in the sky on an ordered car. But, that said, when one orders a car for a customer, there is no 'floor time' rent. They do need to make a profit. I'm in business and fully understand margins and how much profit we expect ... and we discount stuff, too.

Regarding the car in winter .. No, I don't change out the tires. If you are going to run the car in snow with the oem tires, you'll be very sorry. They do not work in snow AWD or not. Even in light fluffy snow, you would need snow sneakers (and prolly different wheels). Unless you are strapped for cash, or the C4S is your only car .... I'd have a cheap Subie or some such to drive in winter. Toss a battery tender on the P-car and use it when the 'coast is clear'. Snow covers the roads even here in southern New England for just a few days at a time (usually), and then the car can break cover again.

I ran snows on my M5 and that worked out very well on a trip to VT to ski. Plowed thru 4-5 inches of heavy snow going up the mountain without a problem .... DSC off. But, we didn't have much snow and paying $1600 for 4 snows/wheels (Tire Rack) and then disposing of them 3 years later with only 1000 miles on 'em for $900 was not worth the aggravation of changing them out, selling them, packing them up, yada, yada.

BTW, many yeas ago ... a P-car was my only vehicle. I drove it ALL year with OEM sneakers. It was 2wd, too. Made for some interesting trips to work and back.

gary mermel

I suspect that this has a bit to do with it. Again, you're in business, I'm in medicine. You are, if successful, better at this than me. Even though no way, as a doc, I would EVER admit that (narcissism is rampant in my field . I think that you are going to be treated by any dealer with good sense differently than me (not that they all have good sense--PNO seemed like they "got it"). I make it clear that my order is going to be just so because I intend to live with the car for a loooong time. You are pretty much handing them a reliable repeat customer.

And for my information (I haven't leased), did you lease via PCNA? And if so, does the leasing dealership get any premium for arranging that as well?

This all should figure in to their calculations.

And I'm getting cold feet about making the C4S my only car. Just yesterday I wondered maybe C2S, with my old Subie for the slick stuff. Great minds think alike? But then, horrors, maybe it should be Cayman S/Subie. Now that's how you make money by saving it

Baggerdude

Actually, Gary .... I'm in medicine as well. But, just a pseudo-doc. I'm a dentist. But, don't think I'm the 'guy down the block in a small house doing fillings'. No, that's not me. The discounts in my business are like yours. We are tied to insurance contracts with 'write off's' of our fee schedule. It is what it is.

Yes, I leased thru PCNA. They had the best deal for me for the time I wanted to rent. I'm sure the dealership does get some 'financial reward' for arranging the deal as well.

I'd really suggest having more than one vehicle to drive in winter. Being in MT, you should have 4WD/AWD anywho in my opinion.

SilverSteel

I fell asleep early last night and missed participating. You guys make some very good points. Leasing in your instance makes perfect since given your car turn-over. And really, I should probably lease too since I never keep the cars more than two years anyways, but I always have good intentions. Since you lease so many cars they're probably very likely to cut a deal.

I have a daily driver I just bought, an LS460L I plan to keep for a very long time. I paid cash. I've never enjoyed having payments as I hate debt. Lease payments are pretty steep too. IMO, leasing does not make since unless you can write it off, or you just don't want to deal with selling the car when you're done with it (and that's fine for some too).

My unscientific perception is that a two year old $110k (+6% tax), now $120k car is worth almost $40k less in two years. I know model, color, options etc are important, but in general it's close. So saving a little makes since when you're paying cash. I can wait them out until there are more slots, or they are more motivated (end of month), or a used one comes along with 90% of what I want.

A friend of mine leases them and has a bubble payment every quarter. I swear his cars never last more than a quarter or two and he's on to the next Ferrari or Porsche. He only buys the very loaded cars that are hard to get so the dealer will take it back from him when he wants to turn it in. He has no less than 3 cars on order at any given time. I'm talking about GT3's, F430's etc...The dealer takes them back and sells them above sticker because they are now used. They can't sell above sticker when new. Interesting strategy.