Ex or current 993 owners w/ a 997?
06-21-2007, 07:08 PM
#1
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Ex or current 993 owners w/ a 997?
Hi all.
Long time lurker, first time poster.
I always said I would buy a 911 C2 someday. It's months now, not years.
I had intended to buy a 993 as I liked the classic lines and the air cooling appeals to me in an old-school way.
But with prices of well maintained 993 C2's approaching within 20% of a 997 C2 I find myself asking the obvious question:
11 year old car vs. 2 year old car for close to the same money? What makes sense here?
I don't like garage queens, I intend on driving it as often as the weather permits.
With that said, for those of you who have owned or do own 993's and now have a 997 what do you think? Driving experience, fun factor, reliability included, does air-cooled cachet trump modern technology and warranty?
Long time lurker, first time poster.
I always said I would buy a 911 C2 someday. It's months now, not years.
I had intended to buy a 993 as I liked the classic lines and the air cooling appeals to me in an old-school way.But with prices of well maintained 993 C2's approaching within 20% of a 997 C2 I find myself asking the obvious question:
11 year old car vs. 2 year old car for close to the same money? What makes sense here?
I don't like garage queens, I intend on driving it as often as the weather permits.
With that said, for those of you who have owned or do own 993's and now have a 997 what do you think? Driving experience, fun factor, reliability included, does air-cooled cachet trump modern technology and warranty?
06-21-2007, 07:22 PM
#2
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Well then it's about time you posted....
Great question and loaded with possibilities. You'll get lots of opinions on this, so allow me to start....
I've owned a 96' White Cab(stolen), a 98' White Cab, and a Polar Silver 96' TT. The 993's still turn my head; one did just an hour ago driving home. They were a milestone car for Porsche and probably saved them from bankruptcy or worse, being bought by Ford/Chrysler, etc. Relatively bulletproof and damn fun to toss around. They set the standard for the mid-90's but as you mentioned, they are 10 year old technology....
The 997 comes in 2 flavors, the standard C2 and the C2S. I would take a good 993 over the regular 997 hands down. It's just laking any pizazz. The 997C2S is a really wonderful car, full of power and great handling characteristics. It makes you smile like the 993 does. Drive one and you'll understand more throughly than words can express. It's the next generation and fills the deep chasm left from 98' though 04' by Porsche.....
Drive all the variations you can find (and drive them hard), and you'll know which car is right for you....
Great question and loaded with possibilities. You'll get lots of opinions on this, so allow me to start....
I've owned a 96' White Cab(stolen), a 98' White Cab, and a Polar Silver 96' TT. The 993's still turn my head; one did just an hour ago driving home. They were a milestone car for Porsche and probably saved them from bankruptcy or worse, being bought by Ford/Chrysler, etc. Relatively bulletproof and damn fun to toss around. They set the standard for the mid-90's but as you mentioned, they are 10 year old technology....
The 997 comes in 2 flavors, the standard C2 and the C2S. I would take a good 993 over the regular 997 hands down. It's just laking any pizazz. The 997C2S is a really wonderful car, full of power and great handling characteristics. It makes you smile like the 993 does. Drive one and you'll understand more throughly than words can express. It's the next generation and fills the deep chasm left from 98' though 04' by Porsche.....
Drive all the variations you can find (and drive them hard), and you'll know which car is right for you....
06-21-2007, 07:39 PM
#3
Advanced
Oh, maybe that stings a little 'cause I have -just- a C4, not an S, but I find the car to be WAY more fun than the 996 I got out of, plus it looks more like the 993's lines, and makes more "Porsche-sense" to me than either a 996 TT or a 993 C4S (both of which I considered). The warranty thing can be an issue, as can costly engine maintenance on the Air Cooled variants, but there's also charm with the 993s. To me, I feel that the 997 is the next gen. of the 993. 996, well, that was kind of an odd duck.
Does anyone else here feel bothered the way the door handles pull up and not out on the 997s ? It's got the design cue from 993, but obviously utilizes the mechanicals of the 996...
-STS
Does anyone else here feel bothered the way the door handles pull up and not out on the 997s ? It's got the design cue from 993, but obviously utilizes the mechanicals of the 996...
-STS
06-21-2007, 07:45 PM
#4
Instructor
If you're concerned from a passive safety perspective, go for a 997. It has the best airbag system and the most reinforced structure (even more so than a 996). There are a lot more SUVs on the road than there were in 1997.
Have fun testing the cars out!
J
Have fun testing the cars out!
J
06-21-2007, 09:17 PM
#5
A friend is facing the exact dilemma you are and asked me the same question. Here was my reply:
The two cars are so different it almost doesn’t qualify as an apples to apples comparison. The 997 is great daily driver and makes the 993 feel downright prehistoric by comparison. The 997 has all the bells and whistles you’d expect in a modern Grand Touring car, which is what it drives like compared to the 993. It's bigger in all dimensions, far more refined, more comfortable, quieter, and more capable. As a daily driver, for my 100 mile roundtrip commute, I wouldn't want to use a 993. The 997 fills that role perfectly.
The 997 is very versatile. PASM really works and is very comfortable in normal mode and very stiff (too stiff for most street driving) in sport mode but about equal to the PSS-9's at the track. In addition, the Sport Chrono package includes some neat features such as revised throttle settings in sport mode that reduce throttle pedal travel by 50%. This is very beneficial on the track and when heel/toe downshifting. On the other hand, the 997 is a drive by wire car and occasionally, the car does some weird surging and odd throttle behavior. Probably needs a firmware upgrade - which the dealer will do from time to time at your request.
The 993 has a beautiful shape and is the pinnacle of the air/oil cooled cars. I love the 993 for zipping around on weekends and top down driving. Despite adding PSS-9's, sway bars, LWF, Turbo Clutch, LSD, re-gearing the transmission, Big Reds, Fabspeed Max-Flo's, Cup airbox w/BMC filter, it can't hold a candle to the 997S in any performance contest. At Thunderhill, my 997S on stock tires turns laptimes consistently 4 seconds faster than my well prepped, aggressively aligned, corner balanced 993 on slicks. 100 extra horsepower has much to do with this admittedly but, the evolution of the car cannot be denied.
There are only 2 areas the 993 is better than the 997. My 993 is set up very neutral handling with great front end bite and trailing throttle/trail braking oversteer if I want it. My 997 understeers heavily at the track. On the street, both have more front end grip than sensible drivers will ever need. But, I can't get more than 1 degree of negative camber in the 997 front end with the stock suspension and I need about 2 to get it to stick. Some different sway bars would also make a big improvement in the 997 track handling as the car is set up very "safe" from the factory.
The other area the 993 prevails is the brake pedal feel. It's very firm with almost no mushiness (steel lines help, no doubt). The 997S with has one of the mushiest pedals I've ever driven. The pedal literally moves 3" from initial touch to firm pressure. I dislike it so much Porsche swapped master cylinders to try and remedy the problem. It didn't work.
If I had to make the decision, it would boil down to what I need the car for. As a casual use car, the 993 might be great. As a car I'd drive every day or for long distances (I've done 21k miles since August), the 997 is preferred. The 993 is already a classic. The 997 may never be but it's a great driving car.
The two cars are so different it almost doesn’t qualify as an apples to apples comparison. The 997 is great daily driver and makes the 993 feel downright prehistoric by comparison. The 997 has all the bells and whistles you’d expect in a modern Grand Touring car, which is what it drives like compared to the 993. It's bigger in all dimensions, far more refined, more comfortable, quieter, and more capable. As a daily driver, for my 100 mile roundtrip commute, I wouldn't want to use a 993. The 997 fills that role perfectly.
The 997 is very versatile. PASM really works and is very comfortable in normal mode and very stiff (too stiff for most street driving) in sport mode but about equal to the PSS-9's at the track. In addition, the Sport Chrono package includes some neat features such as revised throttle settings in sport mode that reduce throttle pedal travel by 50%. This is very beneficial on the track and when heel/toe downshifting. On the other hand, the 997 is a drive by wire car and occasionally, the car does some weird surging and odd throttle behavior. Probably needs a firmware upgrade - which the dealer will do from time to time at your request.
The 993 has a beautiful shape and is the pinnacle of the air/oil cooled cars. I love the 993 for zipping around on weekends and top down driving. Despite adding PSS-9's, sway bars, LWF, Turbo Clutch, LSD, re-gearing the transmission, Big Reds, Fabspeed Max-Flo's, Cup airbox w/BMC filter, it can't hold a candle to the 997S in any performance contest. At Thunderhill, my 997S on stock tires turns laptimes consistently 4 seconds faster than my well prepped, aggressively aligned, corner balanced 993 on slicks. 100 extra horsepower has much to do with this admittedly but, the evolution of the car cannot be denied.
There are only 2 areas the 993 is better than the 997. My 993 is set up very neutral handling with great front end bite and trailing throttle/trail braking oversteer if I want it. My 997 understeers heavily at the track. On the street, both have more front end grip than sensible drivers will ever need. But, I can't get more than 1 degree of negative camber in the 997 front end with the stock suspension and I need about 2 to get it to stick. Some different sway bars would also make a big improvement in the 997 track handling as the car is set up very "safe" from the factory.
The other area the 993 prevails is the brake pedal feel. It's very firm with almost no mushiness (steel lines help, no doubt). The 997S with has one of the mushiest pedals I've ever driven. The pedal literally moves 3" from initial touch to firm pressure. I dislike it so much Porsche swapped master cylinders to try and remedy the problem. It didn't work.
If I had to make the decision, it would boil down to what I need the car for. As a casual use car, the 993 might be great. As a car I'd drive every day or for long distances (I've done 21k miles since August), the 997 is preferred. The 993 is already a classic. The 997 may never be but it's a great driving car.
06-21-2007, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Jakeman
If you're concerned from a passive safety perspective, go for a 997. It has the best airbag system and the most reinforced structure (even more so than a 996). There are a lot more SUVs on the road than there were in 1997.
Have fun testing the cars out!
J
Have fun testing the cars out!
J
06-21-2007, 09:46 PM
#7
Racer
Originally Posted by Dro
Can't agree more. Having rolled my 997 and slid 100 feet on the roof with me and a passenger and both crawling out and walking away without a scratch...I would say its a damn safe automobile!! Airbag system worked flawlessly and the roof was damn strong as well (no roll bar). If I was in almost any other car I would not be sitting here.
Dont't want to hijack this thread but I am curious how did you do that (roll the car)? So the car is totaled?? If, so are you going to get another 997?
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06-21-2007, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 4thporsche
Dro,
Dont't want to hijack this thread but I am curious how did you do that (roll the car)? So the car is totaled?? If, so are you going to get another 997?
Dont't want to hijack this thread but I am curious how did you do that (roll the car)? So the car is totaled?? If, so are you going to get another 997?
06-22-2007, 01:06 AM
#9
Three Wheelin'
if you don't want a garage queen it's rather simple....buy the most current, modern one you can afford. you said no garage queen and a 997 is hardly that.
get the 997
get the 997
06-22-2007, 11:47 AM
#11
So the base 997 is laking (sic) any pizazz?
What exactly is pizazz? 5mph higher top end? (which I doubt hardly anyone will ever approach, in either car) or the extra weight and replacement cost of 19" tires/wheels over std 18"? Perhaps it is the added complexity of PASM over the std steel setup?
What exactly is pizazz? 5mph higher top end? (which I doubt hardly anyone will ever approach, in either car) or the extra weight and replacement cost of 19" tires/wheels over std 18"? Perhaps it is the added complexity of PASM over the std steel setup?
06-22-2007, 12:32 PM
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Wow H20NOO, thank you for the well reasoned and detailed response. Have one on me 
This is the crux of my dilemma. If 993s were depreciating normally, the pull of classic looks and traditional cooling would have me ready to go that way but while I couldn't take the looks of the 996's, the 997 is an amazing design, especially from the 3/4 rear view. The fact that nice '97s are nearly the price of an '06 is closing the door for me.
I intend on driving the car enthusiastically and often and from the looks of your chart, the answer of what car to do it in is a 997. Thank you again for the time taken to put your reply together.
Cheers,
Originally Posted by H20NOO
<snip>If I had to make the decision, it would boil down to what I need the car for. As a casual use car, the 993 might be great. As a car I'd drive every day or for long distances (I've done 21k miles since August), the 997 is preferred.
I intend on driving the car enthusiastically and often and from the looks of your chart, the answer of what car to do it in is a 997. Thank you again for the time taken to put your reply together.
Cheers,
06-22-2007, 01:09 PM
#13
Three Wheelin'
You know its really funny how 997 owners seem to respect 993s more than 996 owners. I never really cared about that but some of the threads going around on the 996 board about values between the 3's and the 6's are comical!
06-22-2007, 01:10 PM
#14
I don't know if you ski, but if you do, you'll understand the analagy
Whenever I dove my 993, I felt like I was skiing fast and just on the edge of losing control My senses were alert and I had to pay attention at all times. I loved it. The newer Porsches do not have this feeling for me, but are much more civilizd, better heaters, a/c, comfort, etc
IF Porsche offered both cars, brand new, with the same safety factors, i would get the 993, but this is not the case. Remember, any 993 is already 10 yrs old
Whenever I dove my 993, I felt like I was skiing fast and just on the edge of losing control My senses were alert and I had to pay attention at all times. I loved it. The newer Porsches do not have this feeling for me, but are much more civilizd, better heaters, a/c, comfort, etc
IF Porsche offered both cars, brand new, with the same safety factors, i would get the 993, but this is not the case. Remember, any 993 is already 10 yrs old
06-22-2007, 01:14 PM
#15
Three Wheelin'
....and YES, for a DD I would choose a 997. For weekend only use and something that may possibly, perhaps, just might......hold its value due to being one of the last aircooled cars that were produced in smaller numbers (deep breath).....993. 997s are a sweet ride either way. Dunno if I agree about the chicks dig 997s more comment. I think women feel the 993 is "cuter" because its smaller....ah who am I kidding, I have no idea how they think, they're all crazy and irrational!