Bob in NY

Fellow Rennlisters:
I have been thinking about upgrading from my Carrera to the S model. I think the difference is significant in many ways. But if I'm going to take the plunge, why not keep going and get the C4S. I have my eye on a few in the market and I may pull the trigger this week if the deal is right. Before I got my 997 I had a 996 C4 and really liked the stability and handling of all wheel drive. I did drive both C4S models I'm looking at and like characteristics of the added power and all wheel drive compared to the standard 997..
Has anyone else made this upgrade and are you happy with the move? Thanks for your input.

dstrimbu

Bob:

I have not upgraded from a C2/C4 to a C2S/C4S; I simply purchased a C4S from the beginning...

The AWD car has been my dream for many years, and I am not disappointed in any way. You will find better drivers than I complaining as to the heavier steering weight of the AWD cars; I find that the weighting is just fine, thank you... but I'm an amateur.

The one limitation of the 3.8L engine is its "lack of desire" to rev - that is, compared side-by-side with a 3.6... the 3.8 is not as "happy" above 6k RPM. As has been stated here many times, the X51 Powerkit removes that "issue" at a pretty heady price.

I think that I'll install X51 headers (I already have the PSE) and look for a replacement airbox this summer. Of course, the C4S is much more car than I need at this time, but who's ever happy with what they have? <g>

Good luck!

-don

Haku

Same opinion as Don. I went for the C4S from the get go as i always wanted one and loved the surefootedness of the AWD. The wider rear was also a wonderful bonus. I'm more than happy with the performance of the 3.8 and have the PSE as well. I too may consider the X51 headers.

If you can, go for it!

RonCT

If you look at the numbers, there's not much to gain by making a change. A C2 is a fantastic car and actually has some advantages over the S (engine revs, proper 18" wheels / tires, financial - you already own a C2 so be prepared to take a huge hit just to change a few minor things).

You mention you like the stability and handling of AWD - can you explain what you mean by that? Neither stability or handling would be improved by AWD - just traction in certain situations (snow and maybe heavy rain). Have you had many problems with your C2 not being able to get you where you want to go? Is this a winter car - where you have snows and it's still not enough so you need AWD? With some additional details on why RWD isn't serving you, the community might be able to give you more feedback.

Bob in NY

RonCT,
The big difference with the C4 I had was a little heavier in the front end, rock solid stability in cross winds on the highway and improved cornering capability. My C2 has 19" wheels and I bought it with 4k on the clock so my depreciation in pretty small. I like the ride better with PASM vs. standard Carrera suspension. I don't drive my P car in the snow, so AWD is just dry and wet handling advantage in warm weather. I haven't had a but a trouble with my C2, just looking into upgrading.

Bob

RonCT

Hmm... From many of the articles I've been reading lately (online and in Excellence), you might actually be down-grading by making the change... All of the reading also points to the OEM C2 suspension as being superior to PASM (I have PASM and it's fine because it's what I'm used to - but I have no use for the sport setting whatsoever - and I'm a track guy).

Maybe this is just an alternative viewpoint, but there's no cross wind stability or cornering capability benefit that I've ever heard about with a 4 vs. a 2 in the dry - or even in the wet. The only advantage I've heard about is traction in extreme cold / snow. Then again, I would have to assume that in heavy rain a C4 would have to "pull" you around corners better than just RWD - but that would be at track-like speeds, which you shouldn't be at anyway in the rain.

Do what you like, but the more time that goes by and articles written, I think you will see the C2 is really regarded as a fantastic package.

Edgy01

I wouldn't necessarily agree that you're 'upgrading.' You are getting a different car. Many relatively new to Porsche are a bit scared of going out there with 2-WD cars vice AWD. The PSM helps significantly. I wouldn't move to a AWD at all. I'm absolutely happy with the 2WD that Porsche started with in the 911. The only reason they started putting AWD in their cars was to help the newer inexperienced drivers to keep them from screwing up in challenging conditions. If the conditions are THAT challenging I'm not going to be out here anyway with this car. (And I've driven 911s for decades in pretty nasty places and weather).

Bob in NY

Thanks for the input guys. I will definately drive a RWD S to compare the differences. I was always under the impression that the AWD was a handling improvement. As example, doesn't the Turbo come with AWD?

rcg412

IMHO - 2wd is much more fun... it really has the PUSH when you slam the throttle. AWD just feels rock solid all the time, which isnt as much fun.
Turbo comes with AWD because of all the hp/torque it needs to put down.

dstrimbu

Bob - turbo has AWD to handle the massive torque production of the 3.6L bi-turbo engine. Without it, power oversteer (and rampant wheelspin) would make the car considerably more difficult to drive...

The GT2 - the RWD version of the Turbo - is an outrageous example of power oversteer "on demand". <g>

1999Porsche911

I didn't know going from a 2WD to a car with training wheels was an upgrade.

MyEmily

Tough audiences Driving a C4S here. reading all the comment make me feel drving a C4S is like taking the ugly sister to the prom..

No matter what, it's still a Porsche...Yesterday, Just droved 200 miles going no where...still amazed me of what it can do...

stubenhocker

Take Chris Harris at GT Porsche magazine, he rated the C4 above the C2 as the perfect daily driver, in the UK anyway. The tail happy older 911 characteristics has been tamed dramatically in the 997, but I think most will agree that the 4AWD version is even more stable at speed. The small-***** brigade will swear that is sacrilegious to buy anything other than 2wd version so you can show off by showing your command of the tail swinging pendulum.
I don't want knife-edge balancing in my car, I want something that makes the extreme look and feel commonplace! After all if tail wagging excitement is what you are after I would suggest buying any large American sedan and then driving it around 25 mph curves at say 30mph!

Edgy01

Not only is she ugly, but she has a wider ***!

mountainmaniac

I don't claim to belong to any "small ***** brigade," (whatever that is), but I don't understand comments about the C4 being "sure-footed" and "stable" as compared to the C2S. The C2S sure seems stable to me. I have never experienced the "tail wagging" or frightening oversteer in the 997 that was so prevalent back in the 70s and 80s. The 997S feels frighteningly glued-down. My M3 was way more tail-happy than my 997.

Maybe in a heavy snowstorm the C4 is better, but how often is that an issue? I think the better excuse for a C4 is the wider hips. Very cool looking, albeit only slightly cooler than the C2.