Audi R8; Is it just me?
Racer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 350
Likes: 1
From: Huntingdon Valley, PA
Originally Posted by ibmiked
Let me start off by saying this; I have always wanted A 911.
Even so, when opportunity recently presented itself I turned to our prestigious automotive press to see where the prevailing winds were blowing. After a lot of reading and research I came to the conclusion that the largest quotient of bang-for-the-buck was in the new generation Corvette. I am not referring to the Z06 which seems to have completely eclipsed the base car in the automotive press. For $44,000 I was able to purchase a new 2007, comfortably equipped, 400hp/400ft/lb stock monster. The automotive press comparisons put this car within tenths of the new 997 at what amounted to half the cost. How could I resist this Goliath killer?
In October I went to the PDE. A few weeks later, I traded in the Corvette (7,000 miles) on a 2005 C2.
It turns out that using the 911 as a baseline for performance is a great way to see how a lesser car has improved. The Corvette was a great value, but was not the car the 997 is. This all brings me to my point. Why does the automotive press insist on comparing the new Audi R8 with a car that costs $20k-$30k less? The Corvette/Porsche comparisons highlighted the Corvettes capability against a more expensive competitor. Score one for the Corvette. But now, when it should be time to pay the 997 it's due as a less expensive competitor to the new Audi R8, The Audi is getting all the praise. Here is a car that costs considerably more, looks to me like an Infinity G35 as re-imagined by a 12th grader, and only boasts marginal performance improvements than a car considerably less expensive.
Say what you will, the automotive press will continue to lose credibility in my eyes until it does one of two things. 1) Compare the R8 to a comparably priced/equipped 997 Turbo or 2) Start publishing articles that glorify the 997 when it beats the snot out of cars priced $20k-$30k less. It's easy to see and understand why a more expensive car beats a less expensive one. I for one don't find stories where Goliath is glorified at the expense of David very interesting.
-Rant ends.
Even so, when opportunity recently presented itself I turned to our prestigious automotive press to see where the prevailing winds were blowing. After a lot of reading and research I came to the conclusion that the largest quotient of bang-for-the-buck was in the new generation Corvette. I am not referring to the Z06 which seems to have completely eclipsed the base car in the automotive press. For $44,000 I was able to purchase a new 2007, comfortably equipped, 400hp/400ft/lb stock monster. The automotive press comparisons put this car within tenths of the new 997 at what amounted to half the cost. How could I resist this Goliath killer?
In October I went to the PDE. A few weeks later, I traded in the Corvette (7,000 miles) on a 2005 C2.
It turns out that using the 911 as a baseline for performance is a great way to see how a lesser car has improved. The Corvette was a great value, but was not the car the 997 is. This all brings me to my point. Why does the automotive press insist on comparing the new Audi R8 with a car that costs $20k-$30k less? The Corvette/Porsche comparisons highlighted the Corvettes capability against a more expensive competitor. Score one for the Corvette. But now, when it should be time to pay the 997 it's due as a less expensive competitor to the new Audi R8, The Audi is getting all the praise. Here is a car that costs considerably more, looks to me like an Infinity G35 as re-imagined by a 12th grader, and only boasts marginal performance improvements than a car considerably less expensive.
Say what you will, the automotive press will continue to lose credibility in my eyes until it does one of two things. 1) Compare the R8 to a comparably priced/equipped 997 Turbo or 2) Start publishing articles that glorify the 997 when it beats the snot out of cars priced $20k-$30k less. It's easy to see and understand why a more expensive car beats a less expensive one. I for one don't find stories where Goliath is glorified at the expense of David very interesting.
-Rant ends.
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,346
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From: Los Angeles
Originally Posted by Alan Smithee
...GM advertises the most by far, and rarely gets any positive press (and deservedly so)...
In this month's Car & Driver, GM has a full-page ad for the new GMC Sierra just ahead of the page where a Chevrolet Silverado takes first place in a "pick up truck comparison."
I'll admit to being cynical on this, but that's not even subtle, and I was in the publishing business for ten years.
Rainman
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From: Nashville, TN
I'd personally love to own an R8, or at least drive one.
I think it's a great looking car, and with all the performance rumors its bound to be a fun car.
If they'd take it, and if I had a real job, I'd trade in my 944 for maybe $4k off the R8 sticker
I think it's a great looking car, and with all the performance rumors its bound to be a fun car.
If they'd take it, and if I had a real job, I'd trade in my 944 for maybe $4k off the R8 sticker
Racer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 371
Likes: 5
From: San Diego, CA
Ever heard the expression "new broom sweeps clean"? I think it's part of human nature to get excited about what's new. And if there's a bias in the press, I think the praise for what's new isn't so much to appeal directly to the advertisers, but to get *readers* and newsstand browsers excited. Advertising generates revenue based on how many eyes read the ads, namely, how many magazines are sold. A magazine title of "Audi Unveils Questionable R8 Sports Car" won't sell nearly as many copies and subscriptions as "Audi R8: Supercar and Porsche Killer!!!"
I think Audi built this car for a special pricepoint. The $110K base price is more than a 911 or Maserati Coupe but less than a 911 Turbo or the low end of the exotic segment. At its price point, the R8 is competing only with the V8 Aston Martin, which it will probably beat dynamically but not in terms of styling. The GT3 is a hard-edged track car and likely appeal to a different buyer altogether.
I agree the R8 doesn't look good in photos, but it will probably have a lot of swagger in person. And swagger sells cars. I think cars like the Chysler 300C prove that a car which appeals strongly to a portion of buyers is better than a safe design that's boring and gets nobody passionate. What I can never figure out is how Porsche, Aston Martin and Ferrari have this ability to consistently make beautiful designs. With AM and Ferrari, does it have to do with low volume and a sufficiently large budget to form metal in beautiful but difficult-to-build shapes?
I think Audi built this car for a special pricepoint. The $110K base price is more than a 911 or Maserati Coupe but less than a 911 Turbo or the low end of the exotic segment. At its price point, the R8 is competing only with the V8 Aston Martin, which it will probably beat dynamically but not in terms of styling. The GT3 is a hard-edged track car and likely appeal to a different buyer altogether.
I agree the R8 doesn't look good in photos, but it will probably have a lot of swagger in person. And swagger sells cars. I think cars like the Chysler 300C prove that a car which appeals strongly to a portion of buyers is better than a safe design that's boring and gets nobody passionate. What I can never figure out is how Porsche, Aston Martin and Ferrari have this ability to consistently make beautiful designs. With AM and Ferrari, does it have to do with low volume and a sufficiently large budget to form metal in beautiful but difficult-to-build shapes?
Racer
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
From: in a fantasy world, apparently
The R8 design is destined to be outdated very quickly. I remember thinking how cool the Delorean looked when it first came out. In my opinion, the 997 design will be another classic that never goes out of style, like the 993 or 356. Then again, Porsche has had it's share of dated designs like the 944.
Addict
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Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Bethesda, Maryland
Don't worry guys - I am sure Audi will be releasing an R8 with V6 for a lot cheaper - they really need to sell these cars because they are expensive for them to build.
How about a diesel powered R8? I am sure it will be here soon.
How about a diesel powered R8? I am sure it will be here soon.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 830
Likes: 0
My friend at an audi dealership lets me 110k-120k with typic al equipement...you can by a nice 997s coupe for msrp of 87k-90k....thats a 20 to 30k difference...also, all the mag reviews have noted that A8 doesnt have the porsches steering feel and light nimble handling....the shifter and clutch are not as good either...i dont like the A8 interior and styling is too incohesive...and for 120k, i would get a gt3, 997turbo, aston martin amv,or a used 360 modena coupe or for 10k more a nice used gallardo.....
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Poseur
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From: Santa Barbara, CA
Don't want to steal or resteer this thread but I have a question for those who obviously read these automotive magazines. Why is it that they write reviews on cars that only a handful of people can actually buy? Come on, just how many Ferrari owner eligibles are there out there? Or Porsche for that matter? Isn't that really why a lot of people buy the 911? Because they drooled all over a Road and Track or Car and Driver magazine from the 70s or 80s and decided they had to do what it took to own one?
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,314
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From: NYC / FL
Originally Posted by Edgy01
Don't want to steal or resteer this thread but I have a question for those who obviously read these automotive magazines. Why is it that they write reviews on cars that only a handful of people can actually buy?
Think about it: wouldn't you prefer to read Architectural Digest over Residential Trailer Weekly? Same goes for the general populace.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 602
Likes: 1
My sense is that the USA Audi R8 driver will cross-shop the 997 Targa rather than a C4S or TT where comfort is valued over performance (see Targa profile in this month's Excellence).
I do not get the same emotional connection to the R8 as I do with the 911. I'll want a test drive for sure but the R8 has done nothing to make me reconsider leaving the Audi brand after driving nothing but Audi vehicles for 14 years. In particular, I am still not jazzed about the fishmouth grille or revised interior design.
I do not get the same emotional connection to the R8 as I do with the 911. I'll want a test drive for sure but the R8 has done nothing to make me reconsider leaving the Audi brand after driving nothing but Audi vehicles for 14 years. In particular, I am still not jazzed about the fishmouth grille or revised interior design.
Last edited by Frino; Mar 20, 2007 at 09:53 AM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,057
Likes: 3
From: Germany
OK lets look on the bright side, Porsche sells it cars at about the highest profit margin of any vehicle currently on the market and as great as it is it could be better if Porsche wanted it to be for the same or less money. Audi as we know makes great cars, Porsche knows this and now Porsche is slowly buying out VW which owns AUDI. If Porsche can break apart VW from Audi then we will see the death of future Audi A8s but if not, and I hope not, Porsche will hopefully have some competition to push them forward. So in short let Audi build the A8 and let Porsche beat it. I will still buy the Porsche no matter what but can not agree to what kids tomorrow will want since Audi is racing cars these days quite well. IMHO
Advanced
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 83
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Personally, I think the R8 is pretty intriguing. I think of it as the next NSX...a great car that sells slowly because it's not enough of a "recognizable" supercar. Don't be fooled into thinking the R8 is a luxury car just because it's built by Audi. According to C&D, it is faster (even in its lowly 400hp version) than the 997S and handles better (.98g vs. .94g). It is reportedly more stable than the 997S, although it lacks the steering feel is not as satisfying. Unless dealers mark it up crazy, it's priced comparable to a well-optioned C4S. I think it will look much better in person than in pictures. And it will probably bring Mercedes & BMW into the mid-engine exotic fray.
I was about to put a deposit down on one (final version unseen) when I bought my 997S. Ultimately, the Porsche won me over because 1) it's a Porsche, not an Audi, 2) it's at least $30k less expensive, 3) it has a backseat.
The R8 is going to be a special car that its few owners will love. It will turn heads for years to come. But a lot of those heads will probably mutter, "Huh, is that the new TT? Cool."
I was about to put a deposit down on one (final version unseen) when I bought my 997S. Ultimately, the Porsche won me over because 1) it's a Porsche, not an Audi, 2) it's at least $30k less expensive, 3) it has a backseat.
The R8 is going to be a special car that its few owners will love. It will turn heads for years to come. But a lot of those heads will probably mutter, "Huh, is that the new TT? Cool."
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 830
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Originally Posted by mountainmaniac
Personally, I think the R8 is pretty intriguing. I think of it as the next NSX...a great car that sells slowly because it's not enough of a "recognizable" supercar. Don't be fooled into thinking the R8 is a luxury car just because it's built by Audi. According to C&D, it is faster (even in its lowly 400hp version) than the 997S and handles better (.98g vs. .94g). It is reportedly more stable than the 997S, although it lacks the steering feel is not as satisfying. Unless dealers mark it up crazy, it's priced comparable to a well-optioned C4S. I think it will look much better in person than in pictures. And it will probably bring Mercedes & BMW into the mid-engine exotic fray.
I was about to put a deposit down on one (final version unseen) when I bought my 997S. Ultimately, the Porsche won me over because 1) it's a Porsche, not an Audi, 2) it's at least $30k less expensive, 3) it has a backseat.
The R8 is going to be a special car that its few owners will love. It will turn heads for years to come. But a lot of those heads will probably mutter, "Huh, is that the new TT? Cool."
I was about to put a deposit down on one (final version unseen) when I bought my 997S. Ultimately, the Porsche won me over because 1) it's a Porsche, not an Audi, 2) it's at least $30k less expensive, 3) it has a backseat.
The R8 is going to be a special car that its few owners will love. It will turn heads for years to come. But a lot of those heads will probably mutter, "Huh, is that the new TT? Cool."
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,346
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From: Los Angeles
Another thing to remember about Audi versus Porsche - the next generation of Porsches (911s) will look pretty much like the current generation...in other words no drastic styling changes. That's good for continuity (current Porsche owners) and helps to keep resale values relatively stable.
Audi, on the other hand, generally restyles quite radically. And while their new cars always look pretty good, the new styles make the previous models look dated and their value is affected.
Porsche has a tremendous "heritage" and it shows. Lexus has more design heritage than Audi, IMO.
Audi, on the other hand, generally restyles quite radically. And while their new cars always look pretty good, the new styles make the previous models look dated and their value is affected.
Porsche has a tremendous "heritage" and it shows. Lexus has more design heritage than Audi, IMO.