1999Porsche911

So, are you saying, that the stock brakes on Porsche, which is capable of hitting around 180 mph, are inadequate to stop the car? Better alert Germany of that one. Tracking a car is totally dfferent as heat and fading take place and different and bigger brakes can help dissipate the heat and reduce fading. The stock brakes will lock up the wheels (rather ABS will kick in) at any speed and therefore, except as noted above, it would be a waste of money to get new brakes.

jt993ttchicago

4 sure 1999porsche911, I'm not seeing the argument either. The 911's brakes ARE the best on the market ceramic or not. they still suck the spleans out of my passangers. The 997, and even 996/993, for that matter are so well enginered that they could handle 500 horsepower MUrCH better than the dodge viper. If not what we are saying is that the Viper is a more advanced braking and suspension package than our beloved 911. I'm not ******* ne one with a viper, but I dont think I'd get much arguement that the chassis is cetainly a lil out of proportion relative to power. A supercharger would make an already fun product even more enjoyable, the reliability and cost are the only concerns I think you need to really evaluate here. IMHO

gravedgr

If that's the case, why bother to have different brakes on racing Porsches? By your logic, they rarely exceed 180 mph so the stock Carrera brakes are adequate. You should call the racing teams and explain how much money they are wasting! They will call you a GENIUS!

cobra06

If I'M not mistaken, the 997S brakes are the same as the 996TT brakes which are 2000HP rated brakes, this from by Brembo/Porsche.

1999Porsche911

Reading is not one of your strong suits, is it? Didn't I comment on tracking a car? Maybe have someone read it to you real loud and you'll be able to understand it.

I do not claim to be a genius, but only a moron would believe it takes more brake to stop the same car simply because it has more power. So, I guess if the shoe fits.......

cleanme

For some reason I remember hearing 4400hp brakes, maybe they(whatever show I was watching) meant 4400hp brakes per axle.

Regardless, friggin powerful!

dianic

Chill pill? Anyone?

OCBen

Okay, I see it's time for a little education here. Pay attention '99P911. There will be a quiz later.

In designing a car - especially a sports car - one of the first items to check off on that design check list is to ensure a balance between acceleration power and deceleration power. The more horsepower a car has the more braking power it must also have.

Why is that, you ask, since it seems like you would need "the same amount of braking ability to stop a car going 150 mph regardless of whether it took the car 10 minutes to get to that speed or 10 seconds?"

Here's why. If a car has the horsepower to accelerate from a dead stop to a certain speed after covering a certain distance, it should also have the braking power to bleed off that speed in the same amount of distance or less. To not have the braking power match the acceleration power is to have an unsafe, dangerous car.

If a Carrera GT has the power to accelerate to 100mph in half a block, it damn well better have the brakes to bring it to a dead stop before running the stop sign at the end of the block.

For automotive engineers it's always better to err on the side of safety, and that's why braking power usually exceeds acceleration power. ... And it should never, ever be less than acceleration power.

So, if you're considering adding significant horsepower to a stock car via a supercharger, consider upgrading your braking system as well.

1999Porsche911

Ben, are you that desperate to try to win the otherside of this arguement that you would throw out common sense, logic and just plain facts to do so? If you take a stock 996 and try to stop too fast, the ABS will kick in, right? It will kick in at 20 mph or at 150 mph, right? Why does the ABS kick in? Maybe because the brakes are trying to stop the wheels faster than the grip of tires on the pavement will allow?

Now that you have been informed about the basics, what would happen if you put brakes on the exact same car that were twice as big and twice as powerful at stopping the wheels from turning? Give up?

Well, pretty much nothing different from the stock brakes. The wheels would still try to lock up and the ABS would do its best to keep them from doing so. Now, where is the advantage of the bigger, better brakes?

Now, if you cut in half the time it takes you to get up to a specific speed, will anything different happen when you try to stop just as fast?

I'll check back later to see if you got the correct answer.


Hint: If the brakes are good enough to lock the tires on the pavement, your weak link is not the braking system. If you were driving a cograil vehicle, larger brakes would make you stop faster.

The minimum distance needed to stop a car is speed and weight (and road conditions and tires) and NOT how fast you got up to speed. If your brakes lock up the wheels, they are more than adequate.

Do you believe that man is the cause of global warming, too?

dstrimbu

Heat dissipation. Heat dissipation. Heat dissipation.

Do I need to say it again? If you put more energy into the mass of the vehicle, you need to have the ability to dissipate more heat to stop the vehicle consistently. It's not a single stop from X mph that causes the issues, it's multiple stops from X + Y mph - "Y" being the increase in speed (energy) afforded by the engine upgrade.

If you're capable of accelerating faster, after engine modifications, it can be assumed that you'll do so. If you're not going to utilize your newly-found positive delta-vee potential, why do the engine upgrade?

If you can put more energy into accelerating the vehicle, you'll need more deceleration potential. That's indisputable from an engineering point-of-view. I find it hard to believe that people don't accept this as fact.

The fact that Porsche builds cars with phenomenal brakes notwithstanding - the fact that the 997 "S" cars have the 996 Turbo's brakes, and the 997TT has PCCBs - faster cars need better brakes, not for one stop - but for the 100th consecutive stop.

You need to reject the heat put into the brakes in order to keep them ready to provide constant decel performance across multiple stops.

What am I missing?

gravedgr

Did you? I must have had trouble reading between the lines of wisdom.

Don't sell yourself short, you're a SUPER GENIUS!



I TOTALLY AGREE! I've been trying to tell those MORONIC Porsche engineers that they are totally wasting their money, but they just won't listen!

The added horsepower of the 911 Carrera S is matched with bigger, more robust four-piston calipers at all four corners. The brakes are derived from the 911 Turbo and feature the same distinctive red paint finish. [ http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/91...s/?gtabindex=4 ]

cleanme

Oh my lord, I don't think you get this do you. All we are trying to say is that if you add a supercharger you are probably going to be driving around faster. So MAYBE one would look into a different braking system to keep up with the higher and probably more frequent stops/slow downs.

That's it, let's end it here. Somehow I think it won't though

1Carnut

I am almost sorry I started this thread. I will say this though I have found with many cars (including my 430, and my 997S), that you can heat the brakes up real fast driving around the twisty backroads.

cleanme

Hahaha, 430 eh? Very nice, pictures please!

1Carnut

Ok as requested