new to the board - have 997 turbo on order, re-thinking.
09-19-2006, 12:46 PM
#16
Three Wheelin'
I drove a 997TT (and previously 993TT and 996TT) at the dealer and sorry to say I was underwhelmed and overwhelmed. It's quick for sure, but it lacks the visceral level of an NA model. It's so fast I got no thrill from making it go faster. It corners on rails, but you don't have to do anything as the driver because the awd, ptm, and psm do it all for you. Since I get in about 4 track days a year there's 361 days when I can't use even half the performance, so why bother?
If it were my money I would go for the GT3, enjoy the visceral thrill of the NA engine and great handling, and use some of the spare money to buy more track days/DE's and become a better driver.
If it were my money I would go for the GT3, enjoy the visceral thrill of the NA engine and great handling, and use some of the spare money to buy more track days/DE's and become a better driver.
09-19-2006, 02:15 PM
#17
I had a MB E-55 although I am a spirited driver it really bothered that I really never used all that horsepower most of the time. You pay a lot of money for the car that will do 155 and how many time do you do that in daily life. A Porsche is a different animal than a Mercedes so this is a little unfair
I'm just having the time of my life with my little C2 Cab. With all the money I saved I was able to get a Cayenne S. Plus the same thing applied to that, it's so damn fast, why would would you need a Turbo Cayenne?
I'm just having the time of my life with my little C2 Cab. With all the money I saved I was able to get a Cayenne S. Plus the same thing applied to that, it's so damn fast, why would would you need a Turbo Cayenne?
09-19-2006, 02:23 PM
#18
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Did you notice any difference in steering between your 03 C4S and the 997 C4S?
My 996 C4S had quite a bit of understeer, and I was wondering if the 997 4S felt the same or different in that respect.
Thanks and good luck with your choice.
My 996 C4S had quite a bit of understeer, and I was wondering if the 997 4S felt the same or different in that respect.
Thanks and good luck with your choice.
09-19-2006, 06:04 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
This is one of those decisions that you have to realize no matter what you choose, you're probably going to be very happy. Either car would be an amazing ownership experience.
09-19-2006, 06:09 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by icon
looks like he wants awd since both cars he is considering are awd.
doesnt state anything about a preference for natural aspiration.
you bought a turbo.
i don't get why that would be the best advice?
even though it's what i have coming.
jeff
doesnt state anything about a preference for natural aspiration.
you bought a turbo.
i don't get why that would be the best advice?
even though it's what i have coming.
jeff
Gee, I thought it sounded like a good idea at the time.
09-19-2006, 06:27 PM
#21
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by Edgy01
Personally, I find the 997tt to be overkill. Many of today's turbo buyers simply want to have what they perceive as the 'ultimate Porsche.' This is a sign that Porsche marketing has really gotten to them. Who could possibly use 480 PS in the USA? I drove an older turbo many years ago and it was fine at the time with the power production it obtained. Today's normally aspirated 911s are incredibly well engineered and over 80% of the 997 drivers of today can't possibly wring out of them most of their potential,--and certainly not on public roadways. The 911 in general is a strange beast. To Europeans it's a quick way to get to far off business meetings and to shorten the time to your vacation villa (much like we in the states would use a small private plane) but within the USA you will find that the straight 997 or 997S has more than ample power to get you up to 65 or 75 with ease and around slow left-lane hogs.
I took my neighbor out for a quick 30 minute ride in the car. He's a German emigrant now retired who worked as an auto mechanic for many years, mostly on VWs and Porsches. He knows how the early 911s drove, like I do, and we both have a considerable respect for the incredible handling and performance of the 997 autos. We took some of the Road and Track test routes north of LA in Santa Barbara to include San Marcos Pass (Route 154) and better yet, the OLD San Marcos Pass road and put the car through a complete shakedown. He had a tremendous respect for that car both before we left on this little 30 minute excursion and later, he was quite overwhelmed at the performance of the car. So someone who has several hundreds of thousands of miles beneath his belt in 911s, this latest 911 is head and shoulders above anything Porsche could cook up in the past. But you can't take every road like it's a test track, having over 100 more HP would be simply overkill. If you can drive a 911 close to its limit (not yours) and feel secure doing so then perhaps a turbo is for you, but there comes a time when you have to say enough is enough. I would think your money would be best spent learning to drive a 997S closer to its limits than to get into something that only a handful of people on this earth can drive at its limits. The limit will always be you, and not the car.
I took my neighbor out for a quick 30 minute ride in the car. He's a German emigrant now retired who worked as an auto mechanic for many years, mostly on VWs and Porsches. He knows how the early 911s drove, like I do, and we both have a considerable respect for the incredible handling and performance of the 997 autos. We took some of the Road and Track test routes north of LA in Santa Barbara to include San Marcos Pass (Route 154) and better yet, the OLD San Marcos Pass road and put the car through a complete shakedown. He had a tremendous respect for that car both before we left on this little 30 minute excursion and later, he was quite overwhelmed at the performance of the car. So someone who has several hundreds of thousands of miles beneath his belt in 911s, this latest 911 is head and shoulders above anything Porsche could cook up in the past. But you can't take every road like it's a test track, having over 100 more HP would be simply overkill. If you can drive a 911 close to its limit (not yours) and feel secure doing so then perhaps a turbo is for you, but there comes a time when you have to say enough is enough. I would think your money would be best spent learning to drive a 997S closer to its limits than to get into something that only a handful of people on this earth can drive at its limits. The limit will always be you, and not the car.
Beautifully stated, Dan. I am amazed daily by the sheer athleticism of my "base" 997 C4S. I can't imagine the Turbo for daily use; not in a place where the majority of the speed limits are 55mph or less...
If I could have two Porsches (and I'm considering this) - my C4S would be my daily driver, and a tricked-out 996 GT3 would be my weekend car. The 997 GT3 is even more spectacular - but every day? I don't need it. And therefore, the Turbo is sheer overkill. IMHO, of course.
Those of you with Turbos are laughing your evil laughs right now... <g>
-don
09-19-2006, 08:22 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
Dariof, that's a good story. Good for you. I have to say fellas, while I don't have a turbo, I am very satisfied with the power of the C2S Cab I have. For those of you who desire massive power, only the tubo will do. There is very little on the road that can match my car. I could buy a turbo tomorrow, if I could get one that is, but I can't justify the additional utility that would be gained from it. My thoughts...
09-20-2006, 06:18 AM
#23
Racer
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Not having owned a n/a 997 I cannot comment on how they compare to the tt. However, I surely find the tt far more usable than the E55 which I traded. At least the power can be used to move the car instead of being scaled down by traction control.
I know if I picked a n/a 997 I would probably find it too slow compared to the E55. Go for the 997tt you would not regret it.
I know if I picked a n/a 997 I would probably find it too slow compared to the E55. Go for the 997tt you would not regret it.
09-20-2006, 07:35 AM
#24
Wow, the number of posts telling him to get rid of the fianc´ee are more than for the C4S. 
Not know quiet911's financial history, let's not push him towards bachelorhood again just yet.
Quiet911, unless you track, drive like a madman on publice roads or have 200k acres of your own land for a track, you won't push 80% of either car's abilities for the majority of the time driving. Personally, I think if you can't test drive the car, and am not sure of the TT. Try harder to find one to test drive, maybe even rent. Only you can tell if you like the car or not. That is if money is not a problem. Even if it isn't, you don't have to junk the fianc´ee. Ask her why she has a problem with it. Or better yet, buy her something too.
Not know quiet911's financial history, let's not push him towards bachelorhood again just yet.
Quiet911, unless you track, drive like a madman on publice roads or have 200k acres of your own land for a track, you won't push 80% of either car's abilities for the majority of the time driving. Personally, I think if you can't test drive the car, and am not sure of the TT. Try harder to find one to test drive, maybe even rent. Only you can tell if you like the car or not. That is if money is not a problem. Even if it isn't, you don't have to junk the fianc´ee. Ask her why she has a problem with it. Or better yet, buy her something too.
09-20-2006, 12:10 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
After thinking this over it seems to me that public roads are actually more friendly to higher HP cars than to ones that are especially good in the twisties. It's a lot safer to hit 120mph occasionally on an open stretch of highway than it is to take the car near its limits on a public curve in the road. With bumps, gravel, other cars, and any form of road debris - you just can't enjoy the car near its limits around turns as often as you think. In a straight line, especially with the tip models, you can enjoy all that HP up to some scary speeds even if it is just for a few seconds before slowing down again. No?
09-20-2006, 10:16 PM
#26
6th Gear
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thanks so much for all of the insightful responses. I really am having a hard time here. regarding my fiance, she loves my current C4S, and really I can do whatever I feel like, but she also knows how much I enjoy the current car, and some of the doubt I have about the turbo.
As far as all-wheel drive, I live in the west coast (of Canada) mountains, in Whistler - about 90 minutes north of Vancouver. It rains here A LOT, so yes, I wouldn't consider anything but a C4S or Turbo.
I would love to be able to test a Turbo, but that isn't an option either here in Vancouver, or in Edmonton, where I ordered it. I do agree about the asthetics of the design being a factor as well. I love the clean lines of the C4S vs all the cuts, wings etc in the turbo. I also love the sport exhaust in my current C4S. I think it would be hard to give that up. From what I've read here, it's sort of sounds that the X51 doesn't give you as much performance enhancement as I initially thought, so I don't think I'd be going that route with a C4S.
Have said all of that, the turbo looks amazing in Slate Grey (thanks for the pic), and is obviously mind-blowingly fast. I'm wondering which I would enjoy more in very twisty mountain roads, which is pretty much all I ever drive my 911 on out here.
As far as all-wheel drive, I live in the west coast (of Canada) mountains, in Whistler - about 90 minutes north of Vancouver. It rains here A LOT, so yes, I wouldn't consider anything but a C4S or Turbo.
I would love to be able to test a Turbo, but that isn't an option either here in Vancouver, or in Edmonton, where I ordered it. I do agree about the asthetics of the design being a factor as well. I love the clean lines of the C4S vs all the cuts, wings etc in the turbo. I also love the sport exhaust in my current C4S. I think it would be hard to give that up. From what I've read here, it's sort of sounds that the X51 doesn't give you as much performance enhancement as I initially thought, so I don't think I'd be going that route with a C4S.
Have said all of that, the turbo looks amazing in Slate Grey (thanks for the pic), and is obviously mind-blowingly fast. I'm wondering which I would enjoy more in very twisty mountain roads, which is pretty much all I ever drive my 911 on out here.
09-23-2006, 12:09 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by lager99
Never have to much power...
Lager99, are you really coming over to the "dark side"? I recognize you from the Corvette Forum. I posted under another name over there (until I got banned last month). Former C6 owner and now a Porsche owner myself. You were always one of the very level headed posters over there and I commend you for that. I had some serious run ins with a handful of Vette guys over there....both during my C6 ownership and after....namely TetraU, Blandcastle, F Gonzalez and TrueChevyDude (his avatar was a Bimmer 6 series yup *** car which I thought was hilarious given his screen name).
In any event, welcome aboard my friend. FWIW, I think 90% of the guys over there are just real good car guys regardless of what badge is on the car. The other 10%+- just give Vette owners a bad name.
09-23-2006, 08:22 AM
#29
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I drove the 997tt last week and came away with a handful of strong impressions:-
> The power is addictive, like Star Trek warp speed!
> It was much noisier than my C2s, (road noise not pleasant)
> The ride in normal mode was very refined, easier going than my C2s
> I couldn't imagine ever pushing it hard on public roads (in my area anyway)
> I prefer the cleaner lines of the non turbo models.
Overall I thought it was an amazing car that didn't make enough sense for me to purchase. It's day to day ride was better than the C2s ie. softer, more pliant. But the road noise detracts from day to day comfort - so no real benefit there.
The power is awesome but I couldn't imagine getting in the power band for more than a few seconds at a time, and it's kind of nice to work the engine sometimes so that could end up being a bit fustrating.
Inside the car it's just stock 997 - theres nothing to make you feel more special. Just my thoughts for what its worth.
> The power is addictive, like Star Trek warp speed!
> It was much noisier than my C2s, (road noise not pleasant)
> The ride in normal mode was very refined, easier going than my C2s
> I couldn't imagine ever pushing it hard on public roads (in my area anyway)
> I prefer the cleaner lines of the non turbo models.
Overall I thought it was an amazing car that didn't make enough sense for me to purchase. It's day to day ride was better than the C2s ie. softer, more pliant. But the road noise detracts from day to day comfort - so no real benefit there.
The power is awesome but I couldn't imagine getting in the power band for more than a few seconds at a time, and it's kind of nice to work the engine sometimes so that could end up being a bit fustrating.
Inside the car it's just stock 997 - theres nothing to make you feel more special. Just my thoughts for what its worth.
