Do you drive a 997 Cabriolet?
09-12-2006, 03:03 PM
#16
Wordsmith
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Originally Posted by allegretto
My C4S was the a great Cab. I liked the extra width. Yes there is torque in the front wheels, more noticable at some times than others but it was still a car that could be driven fast safely. Never had a problem on public roads.
Since you wont be tracking it, I think the C4 is ideal as a Cab for all seasons/roads. The "S" is definately worth it to me! In fact, I supercharged it. Was very fast with NO LAG AT ALL. If I had kept it, the SC was a great way to go. GOt Turbo fever however and serendipitiously it all worked to the Turbo. But no regrets.
Since you wont be tracking it, I think the C4 is ideal as a Cab for all seasons/roads. The "S" is definately worth it to me! In fact, I supercharged it. Was very fast with NO LAG AT ALL. If I had kept it, the SC was a great way to go. GOt Turbo fever however and serendipitiously it all worked to the Turbo. But no regrets.
By the way, which SC kit; which shop did the install? (I was toying with the idea of a blower on the "base" C4 and installing the front drive in a box in the basement.) The C4 would give the wide-body and no need to pay $10K for xenons and a bigger slave cylinder.
09-13-2006, 12:18 AM
#17
I use a C2 9987S cab as a daily driver, it's fantastic. I've had many coupes and several cabs, and wouldn't be without a cab.
I don't see why you would want a C4 in a cab. You aren't tracking it, you have a little flex in a cab, you wont drive it in the snow (I don't). It handles better imho as a C2, and I think it looks better as a C2 in the cab.
Get the sport exhaust, short shifter, and you can't buy a better three season car.
I don't see why you would want a C4 in a cab. You aren't tracking it, you have a little flex in a cab, you wont drive it in the snow (I don't). It handles better imho as a C2, and I think it looks better as a C2 in the cab.
Get the sport exhaust, short shifter, and you can't buy a better three season car.
09-13-2006, 09:39 AM
#19
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Carrera GT
Interesting. I plan on doing the same back to back drive. I guess you "voted" for the C2S.
And you might want to thoroughly demo that Gallardo before buying if you don't like AWD. : )
And you might want to thoroughly demo that Gallardo before buying if you don't like AWD. : )
09-13-2006, 11:16 AM
#20
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Originally Posted by SilverSteel
No longer seeking, but haven't updated my avatar yet. And it's not because of the four wheel drive (not entirely), the car is too controlled and lacks driving character for me. You will find the more experienced drivers drive C2's, that's not to say C4's aren't. Go to the track and see what you see. The very design of the porsche and its weight distribution is ideal for 2wd. Oh, I'm now looking at a 360 Modena I can track.
09-13-2006, 11:19 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by Bluehinder
I use a C2 9987S cab as a daily driver, it's fantastic. I've had many coupes and several cabs, and wouldn't be without a cab.
I don't see why you would want a C4 in a cab. You aren't tracking it, you have a little flex in a cab, you wont drive it in the snow (I don't). It handles better imho as a C2, and I think it looks better as a C2 in the cab.
Get the sport exhaust, short shifter, and you can't buy a better three season car.
I don't see why you would want a C4 in a cab. You aren't tracking it, you have a little flex in a cab, you wont drive it in the snow (I don't). It handles better imho as a C2, and I think it looks better as a C2 in the cab.
Get the sport exhaust, short shifter, and you can't buy a better three season car.
09-13-2006, 12:55 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Carrera GT
Be sure to have an experienced Ferrari mechanic on hand before tracking the 360. Paying a dealer for just pads and rotors once is about the same as a whole season in a 911. And the 360 might be fun to drive, but it's a relatively slow mover on the track -- a stock 993 Turbo will walk past a 360 (driver for driver.) But I imagine the 360 would be a lot of fun. There's a handful of guys that regularly track a 360 around Bay Area tracks. I imagine resale value depreciation would be the biggest expense.
09-13-2006, 07:10 PM
#23
I have a C2 cab, it's pretty basic with the Tiptronic. I've been having the I should have spent the money and got the S hangover. I drove on a mountain road in moderate traffic yesterday. Passing trucks and cars, I was king of that road. This car just breezes through a 110mph like it was nothing. I'm happy.
09-14-2006, 12:27 PM
#24
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06 c4s Cab, loving it
Surprised to see that some think the wide body is not as noticable on the convertible, I love my wide body and think it is really what sets the car apart. Can't beat a convertible, of course I live in Nor. Call. The only time I drive with the top up is if I am going to have to be on a con call! Have yet to find a headset that can block out the road noise....
09-14-2006, 06:33 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by allegretto
FIrst of all, the C4S with an SC is still cheaper than a TT by 10's of kilobucks. But if the rent is too high, don't do it. I think the S is worth the options, especially if you dont go forced induction.
A C4S Cab is $100K, a Turbo is $122K -- put a blower on it for $10K-ish, you're within $10K-ish. That's not tens of thousands difference, especially if you then equip the C4S to match the Turbo spec.
Originally Posted by allegretto
I installed the EVO kit from Imagine Auto (PorschePhD on this board) and it was worth the $$$ every time I hit it. Very strong and far different from any standard 997. Definately as fast or faster than a 996TT.
What did the kit and installation cost? Parts and labor? Other upgrades or "nice to have" stuff? And what did it take to have it removed to sell the car? Part of the procrastination for me on an aftermarket kit (aside from not liking centrifugal blowers compared to a twin-screw) is the parasitic loss of power ... and dollars ... : )
Originally Posted by allegretto
Getting to the 360 issue, I just put Pagids, Toyo RA1's and high temp brake fluid in my 360 for a little over $3500.
Originally Posted by allegretto
EIther way, neither car is a good track car. The GT-3 is better for that.
As for the 360, I see a few of them, including the odd 355 for what it's worth that are consistently at track days (more consistently than me, for that matter) and the owners love driving them on the track, but that's about as far I as can go on what little I know first hand. Operating costs and liability aside, I have to imagine a 360 would be sensational fun at the track.
The GT3 is maybe a different level, at least from a 993 Turbo if only because of the massive price difference. I'm happy to have two out of three : ) Maybe a 360 will happen one day for me too -- I'm waiting for the '99 cars to drop under the pysch of $100K.
Originally Posted by allegretto
If you know of a guy with a 993 TT who thinks he can turn a faster lap I'd love to hear about it. GT-3 perhaps, depends on who's driving what at that point, but 993?? I have found the 360 to be very predictable and fast. I can dive deeper and apex later, with a straighter track out than any Porsche I've driven on the track. I changed tires since I think the stock P Zeros are not that good on the track and breakaway fast.
All three cars you mention are 400hp (ish) and 3000lb. The GT3 is spec'd at 380hp but I've dyno'd several of them and each consistently delivered 360hp+ to the ground. The Turbo has the "advantage" of AWD (certainly an advantage in the hands of amateur 911 drivers) plus it can be easily tweaked to 500hp.
Originally Posted by allegretto
As far as depriciation...not even close there. F-car wins by a mile.
(hope I got all those quote edits right ...)
09-14-2006, 09:25 PM
#26
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by jsmy1
Surprised to see that some think the wide body is not as noticable on the convertible, I love my wide body and think it is really what sets the car apart. Can't beat a convertible, of course I live in Nor. Call. The only time I drive with the top up is if I am going to have to be on a con call! Have yet to find a headset that can block out the road noise....
09-15-2006, 01:01 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by allegretto
A very hansomely equipted C4S is about $100K + tax maybe a little less with a good discount. My TT was $151K + tax, no arguing, buy it or let the next guy have it. SC kit was $12K, and you can get it installed by Imagine Auto in KC (PorschePhD right on this list) for about $2K. Nothing else to say, you do the math. Buy what ever you like. If you don't like SC's, step up, but bring your checkbook and a calculator if you want.
You responded to a post where I wrote "A blower on a C4S Cab -- that's the same money as a Turbo anyway! : ) " Since there's no Turbo Cab just yet, I'm clearly comparing the "C4S Cab" with the Turbo coupe. Is that unclear? And why compare "first kid on the block" sucker pricing at full sticker versus discounting on the C4S? For what it's worth, my dealer already offers me discounting on both cars. I don't have any criticism for people who really want to pay to get their toys asap, but it's an illogical price comparison to load one vehicle price with premiums and gouging versus another at MSRP or discounted.
That said, I do appreciate you bothering to report some numbers, if not documented even though it leaves a sour taste to read the rest of your personal insults and mindless blather.
As for the 360 vs 993 Turbo discussion, I have driven the 360 on a handful of occasions in manual and F1 examples, along with a 308 GTB (glass body) 348 (manual) 355 (manual) 550 (manual) 512 (manual) and will probably end up in a 550 as a daily driver rather than the 360. I haven't tracked a Ferrari of any sort and you say you haven't owned a 993 Turbo, so that's a non-starter conversation.
In terms of financial management, if you seriously calculate depreciation as a percentage, you just have to get a CPA -- the IRS doesn't agree with the idea of percentages as costs or returns. If you think the '99 360 hasn't lost US$50K or the '99 Carrera hasn't lost the same dollar amount give or take, so it goes. I think it's relevant to look at dollar costs, not percentages. But in terms of gains and growth, if your portfolio has a ten percent average rate of return -- and it should be more like thirty percent unless you're retired-- the $200K+ F-car cannot compare to the relatively frugal Carrera at less than half the cost of carry versus about the same dollar loss.
As for the personal attacks and insults from you, I'm guessing you already regret belittling yourself with this nonsense -- I don't imagine you're printing out this thread and showing it with pride to your wife or your children.
Originally Posted by allegretto
Dyno was 405 WHP before we fixed an issue with a valve that actually made it come down in power at higher RPM. This was a problem with install, unfortunately not done by the good gentlemen at Imagine Auto but by the dealer's wrench. After the problem was fixed, it was considerably stronger, unfortunately an accident, not by me, but by a thrid party made the final dyno impossible. I think Stephan can tell you, but 430 WHP or so is common for these set ups, so all the power is there, even with the parasitic losses. On that note, one can opine about losses, but there is NO LAG whatsoever when you put your foot in it. I can only imagine that if I'd have had the sense to have Stephan do it in the first place things would have come out different. But life's like that.
Ferrari? No new rotors. $1800 for Pagids, fluid, labor on the wheels/tires, re-alignment, $1100 for the Toyos, so $2900 when I just took a look at the reciepts.
As far as on the track, as you say, a 993 is a great car and you haven't driven a 360, so there really is nothing for you to say about that. Having owned both , they are very different in dynamics. I'll take the balance of a 360 over the 993 I had (non-turbo) anytime, but we have apples and oranges here.
On depreceation however, pass the joint my friend, you've been Bogarting it way too long.
Look up the MSRP/sell ratio of any similar year 360 to any 996. Remember that they both had similar runs in terms of production. In fact in your example of %-age I think you're really confused.
Let's take a real world example, my 04 360 Spyder;
MSRP $225. Mine had about $17000 in extra CF parts and a Tubi. I bought it for $216. Don't tell me I paid over market unless you can identify a very similar car. I didn't as far as I could tell. A great specimen is a great specimen. When I sell it, but it's so G-D beautiful (IMHO, the most beautiful car on the road in at least 20 yrs, but you may disagree) I can't imagine that right now, I'll bet my %-age of value is still better than any similar aged Porsche anything, save a real 70's RS, or another true Vintage, but that's different.
Care to wonder what an 04 996 is worth, with any aftermarket anything? With NO MILES? Not even close.
Here, I don't want to argue. I buy what I like, you buy what you like. I didn't need two Converts and I don't keep cars after they have had damage, call me compulsive, that's just how I am. I hope you enjoy your cars as much as I do mine. Outside of women, they're my only vice, and in many ways they are far more realiable.
Ferrari? No new rotors. $1800 for Pagids, fluid, labor on the wheels/tires, re-alignment, $1100 for the Toyos, so $2900 when I just took a look at the reciepts.
As far as on the track, as you say, a 993 is a great car and you haven't driven a 360, so there really is nothing for you to say about that. Having owned both , they are very different in dynamics. I'll take the balance of a 360 over the 993 I had (non-turbo) anytime, but we have apples and oranges here.
On depreceation however, pass the joint my friend, you've been Bogarting it way too long.
Look up the MSRP/sell ratio of any similar year 360 to any 996. Remember that they both had similar runs in terms of production. In fact in your example of %-age I think you're really confused.
Let's take a real world example, my 04 360 Spyder;
MSRP $225. Mine had about $17000 in extra CF parts and a Tubi. I bought it for $216. Don't tell me I paid over market unless you can identify a very similar car. I didn't as far as I could tell. A great specimen is a great specimen. When I sell it, but it's so G-D beautiful (IMHO, the most beautiful car on the road in at least 20 yrs, but you may disagree) I can't imagine that right now, I'll bet my %-age of value is still better than any similar aged Porsche anything, save a real 70's RS, or another true Vintage, but that's different.
Care to wonder what an 04 996 is worth, with any aftermarket anything? With NO MILES? Not even close.
Here, I don't want to argue. I buy what I like, you buy what you like. I didn't need two Converts and I don't keep cars after they have had damage, call me compulsive, that's just how I am. I hope you enjoy your cars as much as I do mine. Outside of women, they're my only vice, and in many ways they are far more realiable.
09-15-2006, 03:37 AM
#29
I never understood the C4 cab thing, since I'd never want to drive a cab in the winter, and if it's a summer car, the 911 has ample grip, so AWD not needed.
I'd get a C2S cab if I were you.
Have fun watching the flack this post will cause among the C4 drivers . . . especially the C4/S Cab drivers.
-B
I'd get a C2S cab if I were you.
Have fun watching the flack this post will cause among the C4 drivers . . . especially the C4/S Cab drivers.
-B
09-15-2006, 01:19 PM
#30
Wordsmith
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[QUOTE=allegretto]
Sorry this thread turned into such a bun fight. My mistake.
Originally Posted by Carrera GT
Your condescension in one post is just a bit annoying.
QUOTE]
I felt the same way about your last two responses frankly (please re-read your own first paragraphs), that's why I answered with some cynicysm. To that point I was simply trying to give you one view. So I really think the condescention did not begin with me.
Not sure what you mean by ADD...? But that makes three. So maybe you and I should not communicate to each other too much.
By all means, purchase what you like. I don't know why, with all your knowledge you would ask anyway.
Do you like your Carrera GT ?
QUOTE]
I felt the same way about your last two responses frankly (please re-read your own first paragraphs), that's why I answered with some cynicysm. To that point I was simply trying to give you one view. So I really think the condescention did not begin with me.
Not sure what you mean by ADD...? But that makes three. So maybe you and I should not communicate to each other too much.
By all means, purchase what you like. I don't know why, with all your knowledge you would ask anyway.
Do you like your Carrera GT ?
Sorry this thread turned into such a bun fight. My mistake.