Carrera S VS. BMW M3
08-12-2006, 05:43 PM
#1
Carrera S VS. BMW M3
How do these two cars compares? I own a 02 M3 and am considering trading in for an 05 or 06 Carrera S. The Porsche has only 20 more horsepower. Will it feel much faster than my m3. What other things will i notice from stepping up to the carrera s.
Thanks
Thanks
08-12-2006, 06:04 PM
#2
Racer
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do it you won't regret it..did the same thing..i loved the M3 but
acceleration is much better..even if just 20 hp..torque delivery and weight difference are big
huge difference in handeling ...M3 is heavy and doesn't turn in as well and it is much less communicative...test drive an S and you will see
acceleration is much better..even if just 20 hp..torque delivery and weight difference are big
huge difference in handeling ...M3 is heavy and doesn't turn in as well and it is much less communicative...test drive an S and you will see
08-12-2006, 06:06 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
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i suggest that you test drive a used 997s (broken-in) and judge for yourseld. the S is significantly faster much more of a driver's car than the m3. i had a e46 m3 and traded it for an S.
08-12-2006, 06:19 PM
#4
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I still have a 2001 M3 and a 2004 GT3. I have to say that the M3 is a great car considering the weight and user friendly backseat and trunk space. As you already know, the engine pulls great in the "Sport" mode, better than one would expect.
That being said, I had to do minor things to the M3 to dial out the manufactered understeer (more negative camber and the Bilstein PSS's work great).
In a joint autocross with the BMW and Porsche clubs, I was able to post the 3rd or 4th fastest time (no GT3's were present -- several, Boxster S, 996 and 997s were).
The 20 Hp more on the S will feel like more because of the weight difference. The biggest thing to get used to if you've never driven a rear engine car is the weight in the back and keeping that in mind. Throttle inputs are going to be key to learning a 911!!
That being said, I had to do minor things to the M3 to dial out the manufactered understeer (more negative camber and the Bilstein PSS's work great).
In a joint autocross with the BMW and Porsche clubs, I was able to post the 3rd or 4th fastest time (no GT3's were present -- several, Boxster S, 996 and 997s were).
The 20 Hp more on the S will feel like more because of the weight difference. The biggest thing to get used to if you've never driven a rear engine car is the weight in the back and keeping that in mind. Throttle inputs are going to be key to learning a 911!!
08-12-2006, 06:57 PM
#6
Three Wheelin'
Suspension, torque, weight and rear engine mobility. Is it worth the premium? Depends how much money you have to spend. Very few go to M3's, but many go to the Porsche from the M3.
08-12-2006, 07:20 PM
#7
Track Day
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I have both a 2004 M3 SMG and a 2006 997S X51 6spd. I love both.
The 997S is much smoother and definitely faster with a lot more power in low rpm's than the M3. It actually feels a lot stronger than the M3 throughout the entire powerband.
It will take you a while to get used to driving a car with a rear mounted engine, it just feels different, lighter in the front.
Another difference is that on the M3 you seat a lot higher than on the 911. The handling on the 997S is superb; way better than the M3.
Like I said, I love both but if I had to choose between the E46 M3 and the 997S X51, the 997S would definitely win.
Can't wait to see and drive the new V8 powered E92 M3 with supposedly 415 HP. That car will be a rocket!
Anyway, hope this helps. Go for the Porsche. You will not regret it.
-German-
The 997S is much smoother and definitely faster with a lot more power in low rpm's than the M3. It actually feels a lot stronger than the M3 throughout the entire powerband.
It will take you a while to get used to driving a car with a rear mounted engine, it just feels different, lighter in the front.
Another difference is that on the M3 you seat a lot higher than on the 911. The handling on the 997S is superb; way better than the M3.
Like I said, I love both but if I had to choose between the E46 M3 and the 997S X51, the 997S would definitely win.
Can't wait to see and drive the new V8 powered E92 M3 with supposedly 415 HP. That car will be a rocket!
Anyway, hope this helps. Go for the Porsche. You will not regret it.
-German-
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08-12-2006, 07:45 PM
#8
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I made the switch from my M3 to 2005 997S -- No Regrets! I managed to to grab a great deal on slightly used 997S which made the transition a little easier 
I agree with german88, the power is much better at lower rpms and the handling and braking are superb. The M3 was a lot of fun, the 997S is amazing. And depending what you care about the 997S gets a lot more comments and looks than the M3.
I agree with german88, the power is much better at lower rpms and the handling and braking are superb. The M3 was a lot of fun, the 997S is amazing. And depending what you care about the 997S gets a lot more comments and looks than the M3.
08-12-2006, 09:56 PM
#11
That being said, I had to do minor things to the M3 to dial out the manufactered understeer (more negative camber and the Bilstein PSS's work great).
Did youy notice any accelerated tire wear after dialing in more negative camber?
Did youy notice any accelerated tire wear after dialing in more negative camber?
08-12-2006, 10:22 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by jw1977
How do these two cars compares? I own a 02 M3 and am considering trading in for an 05 or 06 Carrera S. The Porsche has only 20 more horsepower. Will it feel much faster than my m3. What other things will i notice from stepping up to the carrera s.
Thanks
Thanks
Originally Posted by gravedgr
Sorry, I forgot to jump back on and reply Sunday. Here are my impressions:
M3 - very fast, very agile, not the bloated hog many people portray the car to be. With the power button on, it can offer neck-snapping acceleration. With DSC enabled, it is not as fast around the track since the electronic nannies tend to cut in too soon for really fast laps - however, while it is on you cannot wreck the car as long as you keep it pointed in the right direction. In all aspects, at least 9/10 of a 996 - and probably just as quick with a good driver.
996 - very quick and very smooth, and as someone mentioned makes you feel like a pro driver. Very easy to drive fast - easier to drive near the limits as long as you remember NOT to lift. In a race with an M3, the driver makes the difference more than either car.
997 - like the 996, only better. All three cars accelerate via a pushing feeling in your back rather than the jerk you feel in your hands on the steering wheel with an american muscle car. The 997 rides even more like a GT than the 996, but has sharper (if light) steering and better reflexes.
All three cars have more capabilities than 95% of the people who ever own them. Sure, you can drive anything poorly, but if you have decent technique you will generally lose your nerve before any of the three run out of ability.
At a drag strip, with the same driver, the results would be 997, 996, and then M3 - but only by fractions of a second. This is mostly due to weight and gearing, as power and torque are not different enough to make much of a difference (an S adds a little more advantage, but again - not much).
On the street, the driver and/or conditions will matter more than the car. Modding a N/A M3, you are unlikely to get much more power than the S has stock unless you happen to get a factory anomaly. Even if you do, you still have the disadvantage of weight and gearing, so again it will be up to the driver to make the difference matter.
In any case, all three are performers that any car enthusiast should be proud to own. In a strict $/value or $/performance comparison, the M3 wins - we definitely pay extra for the Porsche marque, but it is okay to admit that. You buy a Porsche because of legacy, heritage, its particular handling, road feel, whatever.
If you just want more power for less cash, you buy a Corvette or Evo/STi (none of which are a bad choice for what they do). The only person I would consider an idiot is one who buys something like a 300C SRT and thinks it is a sports car.
M3 - very fast, very agile, not the bloated hog many people portray the car to be. With the power button on, it can offer neck-snapping acceleration. With DSC enabled, it is not as fast around the track since the electronic nannies tend to cut in too soon for really fast laps - however, while it is on you cannot wreck the car as long as you keep it pointed in the right direction. In all aspects, at least 9/10 of a 996 - and probably just as quick with a good driver.
996 - very quick and very smooth, and as someone mentioned makes you feel like a pro driver. Very easy to drive fast - easier to drive near the limits as long as you remember NOT to lift. In a race with an M3, the driver makes the difference more than either car.
997 - like the 996, only better. All three cars accelerate via a pushing feeling in your back rather than the jerk you feel in your hands on the steering wheel with an american muscle car. The 997 rides even more like a GT than the 996, but has sharper (if light) steering and better reflexes.
All three cars have more capabilities than 95% of the people who ever own them. Sure, you can drive anything poorly, but if you have decent technique you will generally lose your nerve before any of the three run out of ability.
At a drag strip, with the same driver, the results would be 997, 996, and then M3 - but only by fractions of a second. This is mostly due to weight and gearing, as power and torque are not different enough to make much of a difference (an S adds a little more advantage, but again - not much).
On the street, the driver and/or conditions will matter more than the car. Modding a N/A M3, you are unlikely to get much more power than the S has stock unless you happen to get a factory anomaly. Even if you do, you still have the disadvantage of weight and gearing, so again it will be up to the driver to make the difference matter.
In any case, all three are performers that any car enthusiast should be proud to own. In a strict $/value or $/performance comparison, the M3 wins - we definitely pay extra for the Porsche marque, but it is okay to admit that. You buy a Porsche because of legacy, heritage, its particular handling, road feel, whatever.
If you just want more power for less cash, you buy a Corvette or Evo/STi (none of which are a bad choice for what they do). The only person I would consider an idiot is one who buys something like a 300C SRT and thinks it is a sports car.
08-12-2006, 10:24 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
I'm a recent proud owner of both. Although my 997S is recently broken in, it definitely is a faster car in all respects - acceleration, cornering, top speed, braking, etc. However, I'm not sure I agree with the others that the differences are quite so huge. For the extra price I don't think you're getting "twice" the car. The other things have to matter to you a lot, as they do to me, such as the car's personality, styling, heritage, etc.
You owe it to yourself to test drive a used one so that you see what it is like broken in. Judge for yourself.
You owe it to yourself to test drive a used one so that you see what it is like broken in. Judge for yourself.
08-12-2006, 10:58 PM
#14
997S has better sound, interior, solid feel, class, looks, accel, brakes, longer maint inteval.
M3 has more room, bigger trunk, nasty rasp sound, better SMG, allow faster entry into corners (since it's more balanced).
If you need the space, stay w M3. Otherwise, you won't regret 997S. Even a 997 is better than M3.
M3 has more room, bigger trunk, nasty rasp sound, better SMG, allow faster entry into corners (since it's more balanced).
If you need the space, stay w M3. Otherwise, you won't regret 997S. Even a 997 is better than M3.
08-13-2006, 01:06 AM
#15
I agree with Doug's comments, having owned a 1999 996, then a 2001 M3, then a 1992 964 Turbo S2, and now a stock 997.
I gather some folks look down on the stock 997 because it doesn't have as much hp as the S model, but I just came out of a more powerful car and this stock 997 is lightning fast. It is hard to believe how many improvements Porsche has designed into this car.
If all you use to compare cars is the hp number, then you should get a Corvette and save a bunch. But if you want the ultimate driving machine, every modern Porsche I've owned (including the 1992 Turbo) are significantly better than the M3, in terms of handling, overall quality, shifting, braking, and track readiness. The 1999 996 was probably not as quick to 60 as the M3, by a tenth or two, but was better in every other respect and the 997 certainly is much faster and handles hugely better.
IMO, the only place the M3 excels is in the back seat and the trunk department. If that's real important to you, then the M3 won't be a disappointment.
I gather some folks look down on the stock 997 because it doesn't have as much hp as the S model, but I just came out of a more powerful car and this stock 997 is lightning fast. It is hard to believe how many improvements Porsche has designed into this car.
If all you use to compare cars is the hp number, then you should get a Corvette and save a bunch. But if you want the ultimate driving machine, every modern Porsche I've owned (including the 1992 Turbo) are significantly better than the M3, in terms of handling, overall quality, shifting, braking, and track readiness. The 1999 996 was probably not as quick to 60 as the M3, by a tenth or two, but was better in every other respect and the 997 certainly is much faster and handles hugely better.
IMO, the only place the M3 excels is in the back seat and the trunk department. If that's real important to you, then the M3 won't be a disappointment.