ronmart

Yeah, it was quite comical yesterday at the track. They had one guy with a new C2S who was being passed by a school bus driver in his Subaru Forrester!!!! (and it was the Subaru guy's first time ever on the track). I lapped this guy twice in one 15 minute session!!!!

They had one kid who looked right out of college who had a new Audi A3 with DSG who was the 3rd fastest in my group (which had Cayman's 4 911's, Boxsters, and more). I was embarassed seeing him passing all of the Porsche's, so I had to do the brand proud and lap him once - which wasn't easy because that kid was hauling.

seattle_sun

Ron,

Hey that was me in the C2S getting passed- just kidding!

In terms of the heel toe shifting, I got these pedals at http:/www.ultimatepedals.com/. The gas pedal has the extended uppers (not listed on the website, but no problem doing it for you), so you just have to roll your foot to contact it. Before the pedals, I had a hard time getting to the pedal unless I was breaking hard. The pedals are custom made, so they were a perfect fit. I had the guys at Chris's German auto put them on and they did a great job (ask for Joey to do it).

I used to do clutchless shifting in my Alfa Romeo, maybe thats why it only lasted 50,000 miles...

ronmart

Nice - which ones did you get? How much did it cost you to install them?

Edgy01

Actually, it sounds alright that the guy in the Carrera was getting passed. At least he didn't run it into a Jersey or Armco barrier on his first time out! As many of the new to 911 folks are discovering, the 911 is a very interesting car to drive at speed in the twisties. Give him time to work up to that whole accelerate out of the turns business!

Deven

This video has a camera on the drivers legs to show how he down shifts. My problem is that I find it very hard to invert (turn in) the right foot and be able to apply pressure to both the brake and accelorator. Maybe its my seating position? Or is there some special exercise one has to do to avoid straining the foot as I find it very awkward to do? (I am trying to do that rotation right now and it is hard to do).

http://downloads.total911.co.uk/GT3wmv.wmv

lwilkins

No, this contortion is not your fault. Porsche just sets up the pedals crappy. Although the 996 and later cars are a bit better, they still can't be heel and toed very easily.

I've always added a higher, wider pedal to my accelerator, which does two things: narrows the gap to the right, and raises the accelerator pedal about a half inch or so. In combination, this makes heel and toe effortless.

And it really is the way the cars are meant to be driven. Why Porsche sets up their pedals so poorly (in my opinion) is a mystery to me.

One other nuance: if you're in a long braking zone, wait until shortly before letting the clutch out to blip the throttle. Otherwise, the revs fall before you engage the lower gear, nullifying the benefit.

mglobe

I'm getting confused by this thread. Are we saying the car is built to be driven without a clutch, or that it's built do be driven with aggresive downshifting/engine braking? The latter I can buy no problem. I've always driven every car I've ever had like that. Heel/toe double clutch downshift, keep the revs up, and the car ready to go out of the turns or for that matter ready to pass on the freeway. Clutchless shifting on the other hand I've done on rare occaisions, but I've never felt comfotable with it as a regular practice. Too much risk to the vehicle for not enough reward.

1999Porsche911

Although you can shift without depressing the clutch, one miss (that's only 1 miss) can destroy the synco you missed in. I once drove 370 miles without a clutch master cylinder (so alsolutley no clutch). Made it back fine, but car no longer has 5th gear synco's that work. It was fun starting the car with gear engaged at every stop point.

There is no need or benefit to ever shifting without engaging the clutch unless you have to.

MJones

It's an acquired skill, Porsche pedal placement is better than alot of other mfgs and the heel kick out is really required. For the most part in the Porsche rolling the foot sideways using the outside edge of the foot is adequate.

For the most part, it's an acquired skill....Walking around the Rolex GT and GS paddock I've yet to see modified pedals...just the stock ones...guess that might be so a driver can hop into any other Porsche and know what to expect without surprizes.

Whatever works for you is the bottom line

Eggplant Cab

Or you could just wait for the clutchless gearbox that's been rumored for so long.

ronmart

Cool - that's how I've seen it done before too (and he was using the clutch pedal). I guess part I was missing was that it is only done on down shifts while the brake is depressed, so that should make it easier than I was making it out to be.

It does just seem like a jab at the gas pedal rather than any sort of rev matching though.

ronmart

So in the end, what really is the benefit of doing this?

Dr. No

The ability to brake and downshift at the same time. Useless for around town; handy for "aggressive" driving.

Eggplant Cab

When you decelerate in a corner and change gears without rev matching, you force the tranny to match the engine revs and the speed of the the wheels, thus causing the car to jerk. Causing imbalance in the handling, wear and tear on the clutch, tranny and engine and valuable tenths of secs sorting out the car in a corner.
Someone mentioned double clutch which is really depressing and releasing the clutch as you go out of gear, reengaging as you go into the next gear and releasing again, matching revs in the reengaging phase.
Hope this helps. Really the PDK is so much easier.

himichael

"Cool - that's how I've seen it done before too (and he was using the clutch pedal). I guess part I was missing was that it is only done on down shifts while the brake is depressed, so that should make it easier than I was making it out to be."

-Since heel and toe by definition means braking while blipping the throttle, you never do it if you aren't braking.

"It does just seem like a jab at the gas pedal rather than any sort of rev matching though." In the video, he is rev-matching for sure. That is a carefully modulated stab at the throttle. It's fast but precise.