ronmart

These threads kill me because I want to go to both PDE (both classes in one block) and Skip Barber (at Leguna Seca) so bad it hurts!

Now I thought I saw a magazine article that showed the GT3 at PDE for a new course. Was that just marketing balony, or do they really have a course where you take the GT3 out?

I also heard that you always have to follow the leader where you can be held up rather than being able to take hot laps and drive at your own pace (faster or slower)? Is that true? I've done 140 in my Benz on a crappy track, so on a sweet track like they have for PDE I'd love to see 155+.

MJones - what's the fastest you've ever been on the track at PDE?

kauai_diver

I read about Skip Barber school but I had one question:

Do you get to pick the car during the high performance driving lessons? For the price I certainly hope so!

B-Line

Good question Kauai. I think the answer is "no". The reason I can't tell you for sure, SKIP is divided up into two main categories.
1) Racing School
2) Driving School

Racing School is where you strap into the formula dodge.
Driving School is more like, Skid Pads, AutoX, Defensive Driving techniques. I would have to assume that car selection has more to do with "graduation" that it does with want or desire. For example. I would assume they start you in the dodge neon and once you have passed some basic skills test, they graduate you to a faster car until you reach a supercar.

I would not think they would strap you into a dodge viper or like car to try to teach you how to threshold brake before doing it in a less "touchy" vehicle.

B

BiggerTwin

At Lime Rock they used the 330i on the skid pad, the Boxster on the lane change, the Carrera, M3 and Viper on the autocross and the Carrera, M3 and 330i on the track. You got to use every car on the autocross and 2 out of 3 on the track. It may be different at other tracks so call them and ask.

Alan

kauai_diver

Thanks you guys, yah I'll just call and ask.

icon

they got a web site that gives course descriptions

skippy (not as good as pde in birmingham, al) barber web site LINK

B-Line

When you go to PDE in Birmingham, do they spend an hour teaching you how to say "Porsch-e" correctly??

lol.

icon

you have to pass a personal interview before the application committee
prior to acceptance that pretty much screens out those people!
they don't just take anyone with the bucks like skippy!

B-Line

LOL !! When I went to Skippy, there was this one girl, she was interested in becoming a oval track racer. She had already been to some Nascar school.
She had decided on the first day that she didn't want to bother to learn how to double-clutch, Heel-n-toe - So she kept her Formula Dodge in third gear for 3 days.
I am not exaggerating at all.. She refused to downshift.. There really are many people out there with more money than brains..

BiggerTwin

The one day PDE description sounds a lot like the Skip Barber one day High Performance Driving School. Lime Rock Park is Skip's home track and the instructors knew the track and the proper lines. When we started our track session it was wet and the regular dry line was too slick to use. The track had dried toward the end and we then started using the dry line. During our classroom session it started to rain and two cars participating in a local club’s track day spun out in front of us at the Diving Turn entering the Main Straight. I saw John O'Connell hit the wall here in the C6R at last year's ALMS race and a Ferrari and prototype racer both ended up in the same spot this year. Needless to say, I was a bit concerned about doing this in the wet.

I chose to ride with the instructor for the first track session to learn the wet line. From the passenger seat it was a frightening experience. I got in a 330i behind the instructor for the second session and was amazed how easy it was to keep up. I spent the third session in another instructor's car and made sure I was standing in the right spot to get a yellow Carrera for the fourth session.

My son and I are taking the Endurance Karting Racing School in August. Since I don’t have a large fortune to spend on a dedicated race car, I thought this might be a inexpensive way to satisfy my competitive urges. Doing the necessary Skip Barber Racing Schools to race in their league would run around $10,000 including one race weekend. I don’t have the mechanical ability or the time to work on my own car so their series seems to offer a “cheap” and easy way into the expensive world of open wheel formula racing. For now I am happy with the Porsche/Barber driving school approach to learn new skills. What I found was that I am a very competent street driver but need a lot more work if I want to master the track. The people at Skip Barber said that their students with carting experience had better track position than the students who didn’t have it.

I think any of these schools are invaluable for the average driver who knows little about weight transfer and traction issues. For those who already understand the basics they are a fun way to polish your skills.

Alan

allegretto

Good points all. In our Barber class we had a national Cart Champion in the group. He was fast allright, but not terribly disciplined. ANd he was only 15!!!

Carts are physically very demanding. Get ready for abuse. There is no suspension to take up the bumps and loads, it's all on you.

And yes, a good street driver needs a whole new skill set on the track, but you can employ many of the skills on the street once you learn them. Practice, practice, practice.

Good luck. I'd love it if one of my kids takes up performance driving.

allegretto

As I said, read my initial post, we're in agreement for the most part.

I believe that Albert Einstein was a professor at Princeton, but I doubt that Princeton is considered the best school for Physics in the US (Ben???).

Having a great faculty is not the only criteria. If you just want Porsche, go to PDE. There is nothing wrong with that. If you want a race style experience with racer-style machinery, go to Barber. Nothing wrong with that either.

Returning to PDE doesn't mean Skip is bad. Perhaps they want more Porsche time. Anyway, do you spend any time on the track outside of PDE?

MJones

Make the time and do both!!
No GT3's only Carrera and Carrera S on track
Cayman and Boxster used in skills exercises.. AutoX, Skidpad, etc.
Lead and follow is the instruction method used at PDE in both HPD and Masters. The lead instructor car has one-way radio communication with the following cars and the lead follow car is rotated out to the back every 3-4 laps. Depending upon how well the group of 4-5 cars keep together dictate the speed at which you will be driving. In the Masters lead follow is done on the first day and the first session of the second, then you are on the track by yourself for the remaining 3-4 sessions.
Somthing like 110-115...at the brake zone. Understand that Barber is not a fast track but a highly technical one 4 straights connected with corner complexes...big braking with the track falling away, several completly blind corners with no real visual referance points and entry speeds in the 70-90 range. Several areas of heavy lateral "G loading"
Main straight is 1595 ft long, not much time to rest.
The track is a BLAST to drive and a challenge to get right and drive fast!!!

littlebigfish

I've done both. I completed the SB racing course at Laguna Seca a few weeks ago and PDE last fall. The SB school was great but there were too many people there. At PDE, we got more lap time, but I think in fairness to Skip, they don't want people losing their concentration in the Formula Dodge. The formula dodge penalizes bad driving, whereas the 911 with PSM on, gives you a false sense of your driving capabilities. You need more time to rest after dricing the formula dodge whereas, the 911 is very comfortable and it's really difficult to screw up.

BTW, someone mentioned that you need to double clutch heel and toe at SB. That is not true, they teach basic heel and toe there, not double declutching.

In conclusion, they are both great . I'm looking forward to going back to PDE to try the Master's Class. I'm assuming you get to drive the car (PSM off)? Is that right MJones?

ronmart

What - you have to have PSM on for the first course?

I realize people can really screw up so it is good to start with PSM on, but I would think that by the 2nd half of the day it would be reasonable to be running with PSM off.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no daredevil who wants to go out and crash. I just know that from my Porsche Skills Day here locally that the difference between having PSM on and off is like night and day. It is really like driving two different cars, and the one with PSM off is an absolute joy to drive on an autocross.