OCBen

He was not asking how to get the bird droppings out. He was talking about the etching - the blemish - and how to remove that.

My steps to remove a fresh or recent dropping (if the search feature here co-operates) are well documented. The baking soda & water solution is my recommended immediate treatment to neutralize the acid. And for that I keep a bottle of this solution in the car for such emergencies. Plain tap water is on the base side of the pH scale so it will help to douse it with water as a first response and also to remove the solid matter, and then spray down with the baking soda solution.

robbonds

what should i use to clean the pse tips ?

MMD

Get happy because there's no ingorance in my camp.

Here's an excerpt (and link) from carcareonline.com saying clay is abrasive and problematic.:


CLAY: Literally a plasticene/abrasive mixture used to smooth new paint and remove over spray. This type of product must be used with lots of lubricant. The technique of using a clay is a learned skill. Use too little lubricant, or get contaminants in the clay, and you have moved into scratch city. This is one product that is the fast lane to trouble if not used with extreme care. I do not recommend this product as a general paint cleaner. You literally grind off a layer of paint. Should be used as was intended, to remove paint over spray.


http://carcareonline.com/viewarticle.aspx?art=5


For more on the "abuse" and misuse of clay check this link:

http://carcareonline.com/viewarticle.aspx?art=0





I feel so much better now.

zumaron

According to carcareonline I did it all wrong. I even used a glaze that's better on American/Japanese cars. :-/

"ONE GRAND OMEGA GLAZE: A fine water based abrasive glaze. Leaves a nice finish. Seems to work better on American/Japanese finishes than German paints."

MMD

Nah, you're fine. Unless you work at a paintshop and get lots of experience with other people's paint, it seems smarter just stay away from clay bars. Again, since probably most of us park indoors, I betcha guys could dump the "need" for risky clay completely if they just used a bug, sap and tar remover insted

Deanski

Unless you are specifically using a more abrasive clay designed for bodyshops for removal of overspray paint on a finish, you'll never damage a finish as long as you use a lube. Just don't drop it. If you do, toss it.

All todays clay for finishes are very mild and if these WERE to damage finishes, they would be off the market and sold exclusive to paint body supply houses. There have been so many advances in clay when it first started in Japan years ago. Most are a poly blend now and free of abrasives.

Some clays that are fine to finishes: ClayMagic blue, Zaino, Sonus, Griots, Blackfire, Pinnacle and Diamondite.

All are fine for light surface defect removal without damage. All need a good lube and should also be used wearing latex or nitrate glove to avoid contamination. Again, drop it, toss it. Never EVER re-use a bar or part of one that was dropped. It's now loaded with dirt.

Regards,
Deanski

E55AMG

I agree with Deanski about Clay. I use ClayMagic and have never had a problem with it. It's easy to use and is gentle. Also, it's not something you use all the time. Once, twice a year is fine. You may think your car is clean but you'll be surprised at the crap that shows on the clay.

Now, if the temps would get out of the high 30's I'm anxious to give my new car it's first PROPER detail (and undo what the dealer did).

OCBen

Larry Reynolds of Car Care Online is old school, and he even admits it when I asked him about it over the phone. That old article of his entitled "Detailing Clays Rub Me The Wrong Way" was based on older prehistoric clays, before the advent of the finer clays that are available today. Sonus has recently come out with a newly patented very fine clay. I was one of the first to try it and provide feedback on it. It's a clay designed not to remove your coat of glaze or wax and can be used on a regular basis.

The reason Larry Reynolds doesn't recommend clays is because he doesn't want to be blamed if someone screws up his finish just because he accidently drops his clay bar or some other idiotic misuse. This is also the reason why he doesn't recommend machine polishers. He just doesn't want to be blamed for someone's screwup apparently, which really doesn't make sense to me why he thinks someone would blame him of all people. So he just recommends applying everything by hand. Like he told me, he's old school.

But for you to dispense advice on things you don't know about it is irresponsible. Why don't you stick to the things you know about - which is what exactly?

Listen to Deanski, if you don't want to listen to me, he's also an experienced detailer.

MMD

Maybe this will help clarify what my responsible advice is.

If a buddy of mine asks me about claying his car I am going to refer him to the negative carcareonline.com essays on clay bars and let him decide. I certainly am not going to tell him to go ahead and do it because some guy on the internet (you) said claying the car is a great idea.

OCBen

There are no essays there, just one article. Which leads me to believe you haven't even checked it out yourself - how responsible can that be? Or, maybe you just like to stretch the truth - but your buddy probably knows that about you already, so he's not likely to believe anything you say.

And if you think I am some lone guy on the internet advocating the use of clay, as you seem to believe, then you've just proved your ignorance, haven't you?

Master Deep

If you guys want some excellent detailing info, look at this thread on bimmerforums. I'm a member there too. I learned a lot from this thread on detailing and my car looks perfect now.

And you can't remove swirls without a PC. Cheap orbitals won't do anything either. PC is completely safe.

http://bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158378

Master Deep

And claying is needed if you haven't detailed your car in a while. If you feel your paint and it doesn't feel smooth, you need to clay it. It is also safe on the paint as long as you use enough lubricant and don't use it on the paint after u drop it or something. OCBen is correct.

Deanski

Not may people do this or take the time. First, you must wash the finish to remove as much contaminants as possible w/o scratching. Use a two-bucket method for fine finishes (one with soap one with rinse water) and always use a grit guard. A god sheepskin mit works best. Once washed and still a bit wet, open a new clay bar container wearing gloves. Split the clay into thirds if possible. Use a lube with the clay (most have their own) or a good QD. FLatten the clay so it's the size of a silver dollar. Wet the area with the lube, wipe the clay over it. If it's "grabbing" it's found surface contaminants. Keep the area wet and fold the clay often. Now it should not grab. Wipe the area again with more QD and wipe with a micro-fiber. Feel the finish now. It's now smooth as glass.

This is what you want prior to any polishing by hand or by machine. Always use the least aggressive polish first. Polishes remove flaws, glazes hide flaws with once again, clay, but a different type and finer than talc. Always use a foam pad misted with a QD prior to polish. If doing it by hand, insist on USA 100% cotton towels and trim off edging. Micro-Fibers are best used to clean up after you break down a polish or glaze. Never ever rub hard with a MF towel or cotton towel, re-wet the area and wipe off again. Once happy with the finish, now you can go to your "LSP" or Last Step Product. Choose between a sealant or a wax. Each has it's own merit and some can be used together to add not only brilliance but depth and gloss. Some sealants also are a mix between the two.

Bottom line, for further info and review, see Autopia.org or Detailcity.org and view products from "CMA" properautocare.com or premiumautocare.com etc etc. (no, not affiliated in anyway to any of these sites).

Enjoy your new finish!

Regards,
Deanski

Deanski

Well not completly true. You can remove swirls by hand with the correct polishes. Go and see a member "Scottwax" on Autopia. He's done quite a few exotics all by hand! He's now using a "PC" at this time, but prior... all hand! Mostly, Megs DACP(Dual Action Cleaner Polish) with cotton towels. Go and see his pics in the gallery. He does some very good work by hand I may say!

You are correct that cheap orbitals don't do much if anything as well as not many firms make foam pads that fit these. The "PC" or Porter-Cable 7424 polisher is the most respected simple way to remove swirls and for final finishing. There's also a cyclo polisher as well.

Unless you're in the trade, NO ONE should use a rotary! You want to burn paint in a blink of an eye? We only use rotary for bad finishes or working a finish after it's painted and cured. You can lean it and yes it's much faster than a PC, but in untrained hands it's a leathal weapon to paint!

Regards,
Deanski

OCBen

That's true, Jim, about doing damage in a hurry if you don't know what you're doing.

I'm not in the trade per se, in that I don't do this for a living. But I learned from the pros and being mechanically inclined I was able to pick it up rather quickly. I used a rotary on my Boxster after sanding the orange peel off with Meguiar's Unigrit 2000, as you may recall.

My machine is a top of the line Makita - very sweet and light machine.