Wash Clay Wash Polish Wax
03-21-2006 | 01:08 PM
#32
Banned
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,638
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Originally Posted by OCBen
There are no essays there, just one article. Which leads me to believe you haven't even checked it out yourself - how responsible can that be? Or, maybe you just like to stretch the truth - but your buddy probably knows that about you already, so he's not likely to believe anything you say.
And if you think I am some lone guy on the internet advocating the use of clay, as you seem to believe, then you've just proved your ignorance, haven't you?
And if you think I am some lone guy on the internet advocating the use of clay, as you seem to believe, then you've just proved your ignorance, haven't you?
You and countless identity-less others on internet hobby message boards can advocate claybars all you want and it still doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Fact remains at least one reputable website warns against their use.
I guess the definitive proof would be to get someone from a lab to check how f-ed up your paint is because of routine clay use, huh?
Until then we only have a professional admonition against clay. Oh, and my advice: try using a bug, sap and tar remover before using clay.
03-21-2006 | 01:54 PM
#33
Banned
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,022
Likes: 12
From: Back in the OC
Originally Posted by MMD
Until then we only have a professional admonition against clay.
Originally Posted by MMD
Oh, and my advice: try using a bug, sap and tar remover before using clay.
Originally Posted by MMD
I guess the definitive proof would be to get someone from a lab to check how f-ed up your paint is because of routine clay use, huh?
03-21-2006 | 02:07 PM
#34
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,853
Likes: 0
From: Norwalk,CT
Oh boy 
Honestly, the clay you see and work with currently is mostly a poly blend with ultra fine polishing particles.
Using clay today will only lightly polish a finish just as if you used say, Menzerna Finish polish, P21S Paintwork Cleanser, or Klasse AIO etc. It's so light in abrasiveness it's not enough to worry about clearcoat failure.
The clay referred in that article was Meguiars Overspray Clay in the bodyshop professional line. Now updated and called C2000, this is a true overspray clay. Claymagic also makes a more aggressive red clay just the same, only for overspray/bodywork prep. I've used them both and remember when clay came out in the trade for use in overspray removal w/o resorting to color sanding and blending. Meguiars came out with that along with the Professional Detailer line so many years ago. I still have a gallon on Acid Rain Correction Cream.
What I'm pointing out is that todays clay is far superior to previous versions years ago and made exclusively for bodyshop work in the aid of removing overspray. That's not to say that some clay mfg have not updated their line, but most have and now carry both formulations and even specific types for glass as well.
Prior to any polishing, a clay must be used to remove surface contamination. Failure to do so results in the polish lifting off the debris and moving it into the polish and pad resulting in haze and swirls or worse. Before I polish, yes I clay after a full wash. I can then be assured that the finish is now glass smooth and ready for polishing.
Boils down to this, if you want a glass smooth finish then clay can be your answer. If you feel that uncomfortable, let a pro handle it. I'd rather use clay than some solvents that can also attack finishes. However, solvents have their use in softening tar and bug debris for proper removal. Without a solvent, tar and other hard debris can really mark up a finish badly. Always test the solvent in an area out of site first!
I'd rather clay a finish than have a customer take the car to an autowash anyway! Have you seen what they do to a finish?
Have a nice day!
Regards,
Deanski
Honestly, the clay you see and work with currently is mostly a poly blend with ultra fine polishing particles.
Using clay today will only lightly polish a finish just as if you used say, Menzerna Finish polish, P21S Paintwork Cleanser, or Klasse AIO etc. It's so light in abrasiveness it's not enough to worry about clearcoat failure.
The clay referred in that article was Meguiars Overspray Clay in the bodyshop professional line. Now updated and called C2000, this is a true overspray clay. Claymagic also makes a more aggressive red clay just the same, only for overspray/bodywork prep. I've used them both and remember when clay came out in the trade for use in overspray removal w/o resorting to color sanding and blending. Meguiars came out with that along with the Professional Detailer line so many years ago. I still have a gallon on Acid Rain Correction Cream.
What I'm pointing out is that todays clay is far superior to previous versions years ago and made exclusively for bodyshop work in the aid of removing overspray. That's not to say that some clay mfg have not updated their line, but most have and now carry both formulations and even specific types for glass as well.
Prior to any polishing, a clay must be used to remove surface contamination. Failure to do so results in the polish lifting off the debris and moving it into the polish and pad resulting in haze and swirls or worse. Before I polish, yes I clay after a full wash. I can then be assured that the finish is now glass smooth and ready for polishing.
Boils down to this, if you want a glass smooth finish then clay can be your answer. If you feel that uncomfortable, let a pro handle it. I'd rather use clay than some solvents that can also attack finishes. However, solvents have their use in softening tar and bug debris for proper removal. Without a solvent, tar and other hard debris can really mark up a finish badly. Always test the solvent in an area out of site first!
I'd rather clay a finish than have a customer take the car to an autowash anyway! Have you seen what they do to a finish?
Have a nice day!
Regards,
Deanski
03-21-2006 | 02:42 PM
#35
Banned
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,022
Likes: 12
From: Back in the OC
Well said, Deanski.
I think people need to realize that clay is soft and malleable like Silly-Putty, and that if it is kept clean and used with a lubricant it will never harm your paint. This new ultra-fine detailing clay by Sonus is designed to be so gentle it will leave your coat of wax intact. Claying is gentler to the paint than polishing, since the purpose of polishing is to remove paint - ever so slightly.
I think people need to realize that clay is soft and malleable like Silly-Putty, and that if it is kept clean and used with a lubricant it will never harm your paint. This new ultra-fine detailing clay by Sonus is designed to be so gentle it will leave your coat of wax intact. Claying is gentler to the paint than polishing, since the purpose of polishing is to remove paint - ever so slightly.
03-21-2006 | 03:57 PM
#36
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,853
Likes: 0
From: Norwalk,CT
Originally Posted by OCBen
Well said, Deanski.
I think people need to realize that clay is soft and malleable like Silly-Putty, and that if it is kept clean and used with a lubricant it will never harm your paint. This new ultra-fine detailing clay by Sonus is designed to be so gentle it will leave your coat of wax intact. Claying is gentler to the paint than polishing, since the purpose of polishing is to remove paint - ever so slightly.
I think people need to realize that clay is soft and malleable like Silly-Putty, and that if it is kept clean and used with a lubricant it will never harm your paint. This new ultra-fine detailing clay by Sonus is designed to be so gentle it will leave your coat of wax intact. Claying is gentler to the paint than polishing, since the purpose of polishing is to remove paint - ever so slightly.
That is very true of the newer clays of today. Very fine and will not harm finishes. The lubricant plays a significant role in preventing any finish damage as you want the clay to glide and grab. Glide over the finish that does not have defects, and grab the defects off the area. Problem most people do.. Covering a much larger section than what it's designed to do. Too big an area and you risk the lubricant drying up. It's similar to wetsanding, always keep the area wet.
I've yet to test the Sonus. I believe it's made by another firm that I cannot now remember the name, but they do all types of product and label it for consumer use.
Regards,
Deanski
03-21-2006 | 11:19 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,358
Likes: 801
From: Sarasota, FL
How to: Properly Clay your Car
Make sure you have thoroughly washed and dried your car prior to claying.
Cut the clay bar in half. Take the half and cut it into 15 equal pieces:
2 for the hood
2 for the roof
1 for the trunk lid
1 for the trunk rear and rear bumper
2 for the rear quarter panels (1 per side)
4 for the doors (1 per door)(if you have a sedan)
2 for the front fenders (1 per side)
1 for the front of the car
Take the piece and roll it in to a sphere. Take the sphere and flatten it out into a circle so that it covers the top third of your first two fingers. Spray the first section of the roof with quick detailer. Glide the clay across the area in a front to back motion applying some pressure. Work in 2x2 areas. If you feel your fingers going through the clay, then you are pushing too hard. If the clay is streaking on the paint, then you need more QD. While gliding, you should hear a slight noise and feel some resistance. This is the grit being lifted from the paint. When the resistance and noise stops, dry the QD off with a quality towel. Move onto the next 2x2 section and do the same thing. Once half the section is done, flip the clay over and do the other half of the section. Once the section has been completed throw the piece of clay away. It is too contaminated to use on another section. If you do use it, you will most likely put micro scratches in your clear.
Keep working your way down using each dedicated piece for its area. Flip the clay over when you have completed half a section. Throw the clay away when the section is done.
When complete your car should be as smooth as glass. The next steps should be to remove the swirls (if necessary), remove any hazing from polishing/bring out the full gloss, and seal in the rejuvenated finish with a wax or sealant.
This method works well for me.
Make sure you have thoroughly washed and dried your car prior to claying.
Cut the clay bar in half. Take the half and cut it into 15 equal pieces:
2 for the hood
2 for the roof
1 for the trunk lid
1 for the trunk rear and rear bumper
2 for the rear quarter panels (1 per side)
4 for the doors (1 per door)(if you have a sedan)
2 for the front fenders (1 per side)
1 for the front of the car
Take the piece and roll it in to a sphere. Take the sphere and flatten it out into a circle so that it covers the top third of your first two fingers. Spray the first section of the roof with quick detailer. Glide the clay across the area in a front to back motion applying some pressure. Work in 2x2 areas. If you feel your fingers going through the clay, then you are pushing too hard. If the clay is streaking on the paint, then you need more QD. While gliding, you should hear a slight noise and feel some resistance. This is the grit being lifted from the paint. When the resistance and noise stops, dry the QD off with a quality towel. Move onto the next 2x2 section and do the same thing. Once half the section is done, flip the clay over and do the other half of the section. Once the section has been completed throw the piece of clay away. It is too contaminated to use on another section. If you do use it, you will most likely put micro scratches in your clear.
Keep working your way down using each dedicated piece for its area. Flip the clay over when you have completed half a section. Throw the clay away when the section is done.
When complete your car should be as smooth as glass. The next steps should be to remove the swirls (if necessary), remove any hazing from polishing/bring out the full gloss, and seal in the rejuvenated finish with a wax or sealant.
This method works well for me.
03-22-2006 | 01:46 AM
#38
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
E55 & Deanski,
Regarding the use of a porter cable...I'm not afraid of burning the paint (i'd certainly mask of the edges etc)...My concern is leaving swirls or hologram effects...The other problem is, my car's midnight blue....which is incredibly unforgiving....If I do get one, I think I'll rent a car from Hertz/Alamo for the weekend & 'detail' it....The HELL I'm going to practise on mine. Presumably pad choice is pretty critical. BTW I get my MF's from Pakshak as well. Have you tried the super plush green ones with the silk edges (just fantastic)...the guys are great (they always pop something extra in the box as a thank you)
Regarding the use of a porter cable...I'm not afraid of burning the paint (i'd certainly mask of the edges etc)...My concern is leaving swirls or hologram effects...The other problem is, my car's midnight blue....which is incredibly unforgiving....If I do get one, I think I'll rent a car from Hertz/Alamo for the weekend & 'detail' it....The HELL I'm going to practise on mine. Presumably pad choice is pretty critical. BTW I get my MF's from Pakshak as well. Have you tried the super plush green ones with the silk edges (just fantastic)...the guys are great (they always pop something extra in the box as a thank you)
03-22-2006 | 09:13 AM
#39
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,853
Likes: 0
From: Norwalk,CT
Originally Posted by jfraser
E55 & Deanski,
Regarding the use of a porter cable...I'm not afraid of burning the paint (i'd certainly mask of the edges etc)...My concern is leaving swirls or hologram effects...The other problem is, my car's midnight blue....which is incredibly unforgiving....If I do get one, I think I'll rent a car from Hertz/Alamo for the weekend & 'detail' it....The HELL I'm going to practise on mine. Presumably pad choice is pretty critical. BTW I get my MF's from Pakshak as well. Have you tried the super plush green ones with the silk edges (just fantastic)...the guys are great (they always pop something extra in the box as a thank you)
Regarding the use of a porter cable...I'm not afraid of burning the paint (i'd certainly mask of the edges etc)...My concern is leaving swirls or hologram effects...The other problem is, my car's midnight blue....which is incredibly unforgiving....If I do get one, I think I'll rent a car from Hertz/Alamo for the weekend & 'detail' it....The HELL I'm going to practise on mine. Presumably pad choice is pretty critical. BTW I get my MF's from Pakshak as well. Have you tried the super plush green ones with the silk edges (just fantastic)...the guys are great (they always pop something extra in the box as a thank you)
Regarding the PC, as long as the finish is clean from all debris and fresh pads (mostly finishing pads like a black one..Foam Pads ) and you have primed the pad you'll do fine. Always start with the least aggressive polish such as Menzerna FPII or P21S Paintwork Cleanser or Klasse AIO.
You'll do fine.
Deanski
03-22-2006 | 09:23 AM
#40
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,853
Likes: 0
From: Norwalk,CT
Pads
Here's the link for the green pads used on German finishes.
Green Polish Pads for German Finishes
I used the giant green pad and they worked very well on just about any German finish!
Here's the article on German Paint Finishes which is a required read!
German Paint Finishes
Regards,
Deanski
Green Polish Pads for German Finishes
I used the giant green pad and they worked very well on just about any German finish!
Here's the article on German Paint Finishes which is a required read!
German Paint Finishes
Regards,
Deanski
03-22-2006 | 11:37 AM
#41
Banned
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,022
Likes: 12
From: Back in the OC
Originally Posted by jfraser
Regarding the use of a porter cable...I'm not afraid of burning the paint (i'd certainly mask of the edges etc)...My concern is leaving swirls or hologram effects...
...or the rotary polisher?
03-22-2006 | 03:09 PM
#42
Banned
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,638
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Deanski
Oh boy
Using clay today will only lightly polish a finish just as if you used say, Menzerna Finish polish, P21S Paintwork Cleanser, or Klasse AIO etc. It's so light in abrasiveness it's not enough to worry about clearcoat failure.
The clay referred in that article was Meguiars Overspray Clay in the bodyshop professional line. Now updated and called C2000, this is a true overspray clay. Claymagic also makes a more aggressive red clay just the same, only for overspray/bodywork prep. I've used them both and remember when clay came out in the trade for use in overspray removal w/o resorting to color sanding and blending. Meguiars came out with that along with the Professional Detailer line so many years ago. I still have a gallon on Acid Rain Correction Cream.
What I'm pointing out is that todays clay is far superior to previous versions years ago and made exclusively for bodyshop work in the aid of removing overspray. That's not to say that some clay mfg have not updated their line, but most have and now carry both formulations and even specific types for glass as well.
Prior to any polishing, a clay must be used to remove surface contamination. Failure to do so results in the polish lifting off the debris and moving it into the polish and pad resulting in haze and swirls or worse. Before I polish, yes I clay after a full wash. I can then be assured that the finish is now glass smooth and ready for polishing.
Boils down to this, if you want a glass smooth finish then clay can be your answer. If you feel that uncomfortable, let a pro handle it. I'd rather use clay than some solvents that can also attack finishes. However, solvents have their use in softening tar and bug debris for proper removal. Without a solvent, tar and other hard debris can really mark up a finish badly. Always test the solvent in an area out of site first!
I'd rather clay a finish than have a customer take the car to an autowash anyway! Have you seen what they do to a finish?
Have a nice day!
Regards,
Deanski
Using clay today will only lightly polish a finish just as if you used say, Menzerna Finish polish, P21S Paintwork Cleanser, or Klasse AIO etc. It's so light in abrasiveness it's not enough to worry about clearcoat failure.
The clay referred in that article was Meguiars Overspray Clay in the bodyshop professional line. Now updated and called C2000, this is a true overspray clay. Claymagic also makes a more aggressive red clay just the same, only for overspray/bodywork prep. I've used them both and remember when clay came out in the trade for use in overspray removal w/o resorting to color sanding and blending. Meguiars came out with that along with the Professional Detailer line so many years ago. I still have a gallon on Acid Rain Correction Cream.
What I'm pointing out is that todays clay is far superior to previous versions years ago and made exclusively for bodyshop work in the aid of removing overspray. That's not to say that some clay mfg have not updated their line, but most have and now carry both formulations and even specific types for glass as well.
Prior to any polishing, a clay must be used to remove surface contamination. Failure to do so results in the polish lifting off the debris and moving it into the polish and pad resulting in haze and swirls or worse. Before I polish, yes I clay after a full wash. I can then be assured that the finish is now glass smooth and ready for polishing.
Boils down to this, if you want a glass smooth finish then clay can be your answer. If you feel that uncomfortable, let a pro handle it. I'd rather use clay than some solvents that can also attack finishes. However, solvents have their use in softening tar and bug debris for proper removal. Without a solvent, tar and other hard debris can really mark up a finish badly. Always test the solvent in an area out of site first!
I'd rather clay a finish than have a customer take the car to an autowash anyway! Have you seen what they do to a finish?
Have a nice day!
Regards,
Deanski
Thanks for explaining it nicely, completely and clearly.
03-22-2006 | 03:42 PM
#44
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Ben
I'm not using either at the moment....If I did, I'd choose the top one.....What sparked the conversation, was that I'd said I'm not comfortable using electric buffers, not because of fear of burning the paint, but by introducing swirls/holograms.....
BTW
Deanski Thanks for the info....The guy that did my car a few weeks ago, used a PC, and he wrote a post on Autopia of the pads/chemicals used...here's the link
http://autopia.org/forum/showthread.php?t=67805
I'm not using either at the moment....If I did, I'd choose the top one.....What sparked the conversation, was that I'd said I'm not comfortable using electric buffers, not because of fear of burning the paint, but by introducing swirls/holograms.....
BTW
Deanski Thanks for the info....The guy that did my car a few weeks ago, used a PC, and he wrote a post on Autopia of the pads/chemicals used...here's the link
http://autopia.org/forum/showthread.php?t=67805
