While I'm completely enamored with PCCBs
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While I'm completely enamored with PCCBs
and I *want* to believe the Porsche did their homework on the Gen II's, I've come to the conclusion that if you intend to track your 997, they are at a huge risk.
Most of know of the Gen I problems. Class action law suit. Threads on Rennlist ad nauseum.
Christophorus states that the Gen II brakes last 'up to' ten times longer than steel in the cup cars. I talked with an insider in Munich today, who stated that despite the Christophorus article, many teams are using steel. He also stated that he personally would not get the PCCBs unless Porsche backed them with a warranty.
I called Suncoast today and was quoted over 5k/front rotor. That's a lot of money for replacement of a wear item! IIRC, mail order the entire PCCB kit is 13k.
I think if I order a 997S, I'll throw PCCB money into the X51 and lots 'o leather.
If you don't track, or only go occasionally, I'd go with PCCBs w/o question. They feel so damn good.
Most of know of the Gen I problems. Class action law suit. Threads on Rennlist ad nauseum.
Christophorus states that the Gen II brakes last 'up to' ten times longer than steel in the cup cars. I talked with an insider in Munich today, who stated that despite the Christophorus article, many teams are using steel. He also stated that he personally would not get the PCCBs unless Porsche backed them with a warranty.
I called Suncoast today and was quoted over 5k/front rotor. That's a lot of money for replacement of a wear item! IIRC, mail order the entire PCCB kit is 13k.
I think if I order a 997S, I'll throw PCCB money into the X51 and lots 'o leather.
If you don't track, or only go occasionally, I'd go with PCCBs w/o question. They feel so damn good.
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I haven't tracked my car yet, and if I eventually do, am sure it will be limited. So yes, I agree the PCCB's are perfect for my application. I LOVE the feel, and also the confidence that comes with them. I migrated from the Corvette world with this purchase, and I was ALWAYS warping rotors on the Vettes. It annoyed the sh*t out of me to always be playing the rotor game. Nice to finally not have the problem.
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From: NYC / FL
I see it this way:
Best-case scenario: You put PCCB race pads in your PCCBs for track days and have a blast, firm pedal, no fade, great brakes, rotors last forever, zero brake dust, exactly what Porsche promised.
Worst-case scenario: You toast your PCCB rotors, then you spend considerably less than $5k for four new steel rotors and hats to work with PCCB calipers. You use a standard race pad and still enjoy the big rotor heat sink and the huge calipers and the great pedal feel.
Then you have to consider that some Porsche dealers - not naming names here - will warranty out PCCB rotors. That alone is a great benefit.
eilig: this link is for you: http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml
Best-case scenario: You put PCCB race pads in your PCCBs for track days and have a blast, firm pedal, no fade, great brakes, rotors last forever, zero brake dust, exactly what Porsche promised.
Worst-case scenario: You toast your PCCB rotors, then you spend considerably less than $5k for four new steel rotors and hats to work with PCCB calipers. You use a standard race pad and still enjoy the big rotor heat sink and the huge calipers and the great pedal feel.
Then you have to consider that some Porsche dealers - not naming names here - will warranty out PCCB rotors. That alone is a great benefit.
eilig: this link is for you: http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml
Pro
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Seattle Area
Originally Posted by nkhalidi
I see it this way:
Best-case scenario: You put PCCB race pads in your PCCBs for track days and have a blast, firm pedal, no fade, great brakes, rotors last forever, zero brake dust, exactly what Porsche promised.
Worst-case scenario: You toast your PCCB rotors, then you spend considerably less than $5k for four new steel rotors and hats to work with PCCB calipers. You use a standard race pad and still enjoy the big rotor heat sink and the huge calipers and the great pedal feel.
Then you have to consider that some Porsche dealers - not naming names here - will warranty out PCCB rotors. That alone is a great benefit.
eilig: this link is for you: http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml
Best-case scenario: You put PCCB race pads in your PCCBs for track days and have a blast, firm pedal, no fade, great brakes, rotors last forever, zero brake dust, exactly what Porsche promised.
Worst-case scenario: You toast your PCCB rotors, then you spend considerably less than $5k for four new steel rotors and hats to work with PCCB calipers. You use a standard race pad and still enjoy the big rotor heat sink and the huge calipers and the great pedal feel.
Then you have to consider that some Porsche dealers - not naming names here - will warranty out PCCB rotors. That alone is a great benefit.
eilig: this link is for you: http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml
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On the GT3 there are direct steel replacement rotors. On the GT2 its a bit more complicated. I take it from your posts nk and Ray G that there is a steel/hat solution for steel replacements on the 997S chassis?
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From: NYC / FL
Jeff, I just got off the phone with Rob at CDOC. He told me about their 996 GT3 iron rotor package, which for about $3500 gets you four iron AP rotors and hats. The issue is that the AP rotor is slightly larger than the stock PCCB rotor and requires a 5mm spacer. I don't really understand how a larger rotor necessitates a wheel spacer, and I'm concerned about revising the caliper mounts to fit the larger rotor. That said, Rob indicated that he wasn't sure if this package would fit the 997S PCCBs, but that he would pay freight both ways if it didn't work.
How does the swap work on GT3s?
How does the swap work on GT3s?
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I may have mistyped; the GT3 and GT2 I think have the same conversion process.
Here's the skinny on the GT2:
http://www.carnewal-europe.com/cpx_p96172.htm
Here's the skinny on the GT2:
http://www.carnewal-europe.com/cpx_p96172.htm
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Just got off the phone with a race shop in Cali. They are pulling the 997S part numbers and sorting through steel replacement options on the S (they haven't done this yet, only on GT2's and GT3's). Should more know on Monday.
Pro
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Seattle Area
Originally Posted by nkhalidi
Jeff, I just got off the phone with Rob at CDOC. He told me about their 996 GT3 iron rotor package, which for about $3500 gets you four iron AP rotors and hats. The issue is that the AP rotor is slightly larger than the stock PCCB rotor and requires a 5mm spacer. I don't really understand how a larger rotor necessitates a wheel spacer, and I'm concerned about revising the caliper mounts to fit the larger rotor. That said, Rob indicated that he wasn't sure if this package would fit the 997S PCCBs, but that he would pay freight both ways if it didn't work.
How does the swap work on GT3s?
How does the swap work on GT3s?
Great picture in your avatar, by the way.
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From: NYC / FL
Jeff: Please let us know on Monday what the Cal. race shop has to say. I'm going to call around tomorrow (Racer's Group et al) and see what they have to say.
Ray: The price is what CDOC quoted. I wasn't going to argue with Rob. I think the prices are very high as well, but sometimes when specific parts are in demand, prices rise accordingly. I'm going to see if Zeckhausen in NJ can build up a set of custom rotors and hats for the 997 S; I'll call him tomorrow as well. Thanks for the compliment on the avatar pic; that's me at age 4 or 5!
Ray: The price is what CDOC quoted. I wasn't going to argue with Rob. I think the prices are very high as well, but sometimes when specific parts are in demand, prices rise accordingly. I'm going to see if Zeckhausen in NJ can build up a set of custom rotors and hats for the 997 S; I'll call him tomorrow as well. Thanks for the compliment on the avatar pic; that's me at age 4 or 5!
Pro
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From: Seattle Area
A friend at my dealer's service dept says he thinks replacing PCCBs with iron rotors costs something like $4500 (ballpark) because you need several parts, including calipers. So, I guess it's not the cheapest thing in the world to convert.
I guess if it came down to X51 vs PCCB, I would get X51. You can always upgrade the brakes later with a good non-PCCB setup.
I guess if it came down to X51 vs PCCB, I would get X51. You can always upgrade the brakes later with a good non-PCCB setup.
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From: NYC / FL
That's a good point about upgrading the brakes, Ray. One performance brake guy even told me to remove the PCCBs, sell them (should get at least $8k (not coincidentally the option price) for them, he said, given the $14k cost from the parts dept), and go with a 4-wheel Stoptech ST-60.
It's just ironic because the reason I went from BMW to Porsche is so I WOULDN'T have to start swapping parts like brakes, suspension, etc. I guess the journey begins.
It's just ironic because the reason I went from BMW to Porsche is so I WOULDN'T have to start swapping parts like brakes, suspension, etc. I guess the journey begins.
Pro
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Seattle Area
Originally Posted by nkhalidi
It's just ironic because the reason I went from BMW to Porsche is so I WOULDN'T have to start swapping parts like brakes, suspension, etc. I guess the journey begins.
I would venture to say that even track rats would be happy with the OEM C-S brakes.Having said that, there is always room for improvement, and I've heard of folks changing to lighter weight conventional setups.