P-Nuts

I'm surprised there has not already been a poll on C2S vs C4S, so thought it would be fun to run one.

ronmart

It really puzzles me that people on this forum seem to think that AWD only serves its purpose for icy weather driving. Anyone who has gone around a race track and had precious seconds lost on a lap by having their back end slide out a bit too much, only to be spanked by a AWD vehicle zipping past them knows that a C4s is a formidble race track car. Sure, the weight causes you to lose a little straight line accelleration, but you gain that back with grip. Your starts are fast because those big 305's will dig in without a chirp and launch you in a hurry.

Let's face it, few people will get their 997 up to its top speed -- even on a track, so the 3 or 4 mph difference in top speed is meaningless. Besides, at 170+, your odds of losing control of your car is greater in a C2 than C4, so again its an advantage to have the C4.

For those 996'ers who had a C4s and complained, Porsche heard you loud and clear. That is why the 997 C4s shares the same front end components as the C2s 997 (unlike that in those in the 996) and the variable steering is said to result in a C2 like steering feel. Sure a C4s will have more understeer than a C2, but the difference should be significantly less than in a 996. I think Walter Rohrl prooved that when he got the same time on the 'ring in a C4s as he did in a C2s.

To quote Pirelli "Power is NOTHING without Control". I think the C4s provides that control - especially for mere mortals.

scycle2020

if i was going to track the car regularly, i could see getting the c4s, and it looks cooler...but it is 8k more, and adds extra weight and complexity, and the less complex my car, the better i sleep at night!!!! as for winter driving, i wouldnt take out a 90k car in the salt and ice and snow that we have here :: 5-10days a year, at most.......i have blazer i bought wholesale for 5k, 45k miles on it, 2001, that drives great and looks new...and if i scratch it up or some one hits me or i hit a giant rock, i dont care a lick!!!!!

ronmart

Yeah, I'd be reluctant to take my 997 out in the rain much less the snow. I've got vehicles for those conditions. The 997 is for sunny weather fun and serious grins on the track.

nkhalidi

If the C4 were such a formidable race track car, why aren't GT3s and GT2s all-wheel-drive? If I recall correctly, all-wheel-drive cars are fast not because of their traction or tractability, but because they manage tires so well and therefore maintain more grip over a longer period of time than other cars.

ronmart

AWD cars have been prohibited from most street racing classes because they offer an unfair advantage over their 2WD brethren (remember what happened to Audi with Quattro -- so good it was banned)?

RE: GT3's and GT2's see above and remember that since AWD's are typically banned and those cars are marketed to racing enthusiasts, then it doesn't make sense to configure them in a way that is illegal for competition purposes.

AWD's manage tires well because the power is better distributed over the tires so there isn't a rear bias. While that is an advantage, the bigger advantage is the transfer of traction from the wheels that slip to the wheels with grip (ala Quattro) and that allows you to go to full power out of the apex much sooner than is possible with a 2WD vehicle.

With that said, point and squirt drivers enjoy being able to throw the back end out for very sharp turns and in those circumstances they do have advantage over AWD because they can cut sharper turns faster.

At the end of the day both are great cars, so it just boils down to preferences and driving experience. If you've got 100+ hours of real world lap time on a race track, then a 2WD makes sense for you because you know how to get the most out of it. If you are an average Joe, then you'll stand a much greater chance at hanging with the big boys in a AWD and more importantly you are more likely to leave the track with your car in tact (stupidity notwithstanding).

MrBonus

Drive both, then decide.

TT Surgeon

My 996 C4S runs like a scalded assed ape at the track, I love it. Can't wait to get a 997 C4S. Funny how WR can get the same 'ring times out of a heavy understeering C4S? Must not be such a POS after all, huh?
Wouldn't it be a pisser if a 997C4S X51 ran the 'ring faster than a 996GT3.

Le Chef

I don't think the advantage of awd is when the weather is bad. I'm just nor prepared to give up the steering feel I've gained over my 996C4S, not to mention a reduction in the huge amount of understeer that car had. There was no way you get the back out even with PSM off unless you did something deliberately stupid.

I've heard others contradict the Walter Rorhl official Porsche line about the C4/S handling, to the effect that nothing has changed between 996 and 997. Since Rorhl is a paid shill that's enough to make me question what the real truth is.

I'll wait for an independant test by an Evo or some other reputable magazine before believing what Porsche says about the C4/S.

nkhalidi

I believe there's a guy racing an all-wheel-drive 996tt in SWC. I don't think AWD is necessarily "prohibited from most street racing classes", either. What's a "street racing" class? I'm pretty sure AWD is okay in PCA CR, and I can't think of anyone running AWD in GAC, but I also can't think of any specific restrictions against it.

I guess my point, which I sort of alluded to but didn't really articulate, is that for race teams, the costs of all-wheel-drive (weight) outweigh the benefits (tire longevity). Of course, our mere mortal mileage may vary.

Now me, I'm closer to an average Joe than someone who races on television. But I prefer RWD over AWD because RWD is more of a learning experience. I go to hotlapping days for two purposes: fun and learning. I get more learning out of RWD cars compared to AWD, and I think RWD is more fun as well.

ronmart

A typo. I meant to say stock racing classes (as opposed to LMS, F1, CART, etc...)

I meant to say a stock. I've been distracted with kids tonight:

ronmart

True, the real proof will be had next week when people can start driving them in real life.

According to all of the specifications, much work was done in the 997 (different front suspension and in steering) to drastically help the understeer problems and heavy feel that plagued the 996. Hopefully that will be true.

P-Nuts

Evo magazine from August 2005 said that the C4S is 2 sec. faster round the Ring than the C2S. Overall it rated the C4S as five stars (same as C2S), but questioned whether the price difference was worth it. By the way, due to recent price increase for the C2S, the price gap to a C4S in the USA is now only $5,700.

Sobe

it is worth $5,700 just for the wider hips !

frayed

I owned a 996 C4S, a 996 C2 and currently a GT3. I put all of them on the track. I *much* prefer a the RWD C2 and GT3 on track. The chassis' of these two cars I found to be more intuitive at speed, and simply stated, I think they are a lot more fun and engaging. The C4S was a lot less lively and just never felt 'right' to me at speed. But hey, I come from a bmw background so I suppose I'm biased for RWD cars.

As a bonus, the C2 variants are lighter and have better steering feel. However, C4S's look that much more badass than their narrowbody counterparts (although the 997S ain't narrow).

No more AWD for me.