0-60 time
10-05-2005, 09:48 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
Everyone here is forgetting that most every reputable car magazine NORMALIZES their 0-60 and 1/4 mile times, among others, for factors outside their control (weather, testing surface, wind velocity, etc.).
And to me, a car rated 4.8sec 0-60 (E46 M3) feels slower than a car rated at 4.2sec (996 turbo). The 0-60 numbers are helpful for comparison purposes. I enjoy reading them but don't take them as gospel, as nobody should. Same thing for oft-touted Nürburgring laptimes. Sheesh, two seconds over 14 miles, wow.
And to me, a car rated 4.8sec 0-60 (E46 M3) feels slower than a car rated at 4.2sec (996 turbo). The 0-60 numbers are helpful for comparison purposes. I enjoy reading them but don't take them as gospel, as nobody should. Same thing for oft-touted Nürburgring laptimes. Sheesh, two seconds over 14 miles, wow.
10-05-2005, 10:36 PM
#32
I might as well chime in here...
When I had the rental 997S in Germany a couple weeks ago, I have to admit that on the last day, before returning it, I spent some time "experimenting" with 0-60 runs on a quiet, traffic-free highway in the middle of nowhere. I knew that I'd never do any hard launches in my own car, and since it was a rental... well, you know...
First I tried some regular launches where I didn't rev and dump the clutch. Just eased it out of the hole and as soon as clutch was fully engaged, floored it. That first gear is so low that it really didn't bog too much. I think the biggest issue with a clean, fast launch without dumping the clutch is normally bog.
Then, of course, I revved, dumped, and feathered the throttle. Revving to 3,500 spun the rears for about 10-15 feet, then pretty violent axle tramp, then it hooked and went. The two times I did it, the rear kicked out to the left about 3-4 feet while the rears were spinning.
Then I tried slipping the clutch and feathering revs right from the get-go. This was probably the best launch overall, as it got the revs high very quick, with very little bog and practically no wheelspin. However, I think it's probably the hardest on the clutch. You could smell burning clutch.
None of this really matters anyway, as the Porsche is NOT a drag racing car. But it was interesting to see what the car will do.
I will say this: I believe those 0-60 times in 4 seconds are for real. This car is deceptively quick and gets through those gears quick. The car has the ability, the only question is, does the driver. You have to think those test guys with the car rags know what they're doing for the most part, so I'd believe their 0-60 times. But think of all the variables that could affect their times: tires, pavement temp, air temp, miles on the test car, launch method, shift method, etc etc. I think it's all those variables that cause variance in the 0-60 times we read.
When I had the rental 997S in Germany a couple weeks ago, I have to admit that on the last day, before returning it, I spent some time "experimenting" with 0-60 runs on a quiet, traffic-free highway in the middle of nowhere. I knew that I'd never do any hard launches in my own car, and since it was a rental... well, you know...
First I tried some regular launches where I didn't rev and dump the clutch. Just eased it out of the hole and as soon as clutch was fully engaged, floored it. That first gear is so low that it really didn't bog too much. I think the biggest issue with a clean, fast launch without dumping the clutch is normally bog.
Then, of course, I revved, dumped, and feathered the throttle. Revving to 3,500 spun the rears for about 10-15 feet, then pretty violent axle tramp, then it hooked and went. The two times I did it, the rear kicked out to the left about 3-4 feet while the rears were spinning.
Then I tried slipping the clutch and feathering revs right from the get-go. This was probably the best launch overall, as it got the revs high very quick, with very little bog and practically no wheelspin. However, I think it's probably the hardest on the clutch. You could smell burning clutch.
None of this really matters anyway, as the Porsche is NOT a drag racing car. But it was interesting to see what the car will do.
I will say this: I believe those 0-60 times in 4 seconds are for real. This car is deceptively quick and gets through those gears quick. The car has the ability, the only question is, does the driver. You have to think those test guys with the car rags know what they're doing for the most part, so I'd believe their 0-60 times. But think of all the variables that could affect their times: tires, pavement temp, air temp, miles on the test car, launch method, shift method, etc etc. I think it's all those variables that cause variance in the 0-60 times we read.
10-06-2005, 08:21 AM
#33
Originally Posted by eilig
I might as well chime in here...
When I had the rental 997S in Germany a couple weeks ago, I have to admit that on the last day, before returning it, I spent some time "experimenting" with 0-60 runs on a quiet, traffic-free highway in the middle of nowhere. I knew that I'd never do any hard launches in my own car, and since it was a rental... well, you know...
I will say this: I believe those 0-60 times in 4 seconds are for real. This car is deceptively quick and gets through those gears quick. The car has the ability, the only question is, does the driver. You have to think those test guys with the car rags know what they're doing for the most part, so I'd believe their 0-60 times. But think of all the variables that could affect their times: tires, pavement temp, air temp, miles on the test car, launch method, shift method, etc etc. I think it's all those variables that cause variance in the 0-60 times we read.
When I had the rental 997S in Germany a couple weeks ago, I have to admit that on the last day, before returning it, I spent some time "experimenting" with 0-60 runs on a quiet, traffic-free highway in the middle of nowhere. I knew that I'd never do any hard launches in my own car, and since it was a rental... well, you know...
I will say this: I believe those 0-60 times in 4 seconds are for real. This car is deceptively quick and gets through those gears quick. The car has the ability, the only question is, does the driver. You have to think those test guys with the car rags know what they're doing for the most part, so I'd believe their 0-60 times. But think of all the variables that could affect their times: tires, pavement temp, air temp, miles on the test car, launch method, shift method, etc etc. I think it's all those variables that cause variance in the 0-60 times we read.
10-06-2005, 09:50 AM
#34
Nordschleife Master
I suspect that Porsche 0-60 times are done without doing a launch, just the normal slip in to 1st at 800-1000 rpm and floor it. They also probably put a 200 lb guy in the passenger seat.
Gear changing should be a issue since it should only be one shift into 2nd at about 44 mph
Gear changing should be a issue since it should only be one shift into 2nd at about 44 mph
10-07-2005, 12:38 AM
#35
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Throughout this thread, concerns have been raised about: (1) what difference is really meaningful; (2) the extent to which these 0-60 tests are standardized across the various cars tested by the mag; and (3) the particular launch method used.
These are legitimate issues, but guys these tests ARE about as standardized as you can get for these 0-60 runs. This is a major benefit for comparing the RELATIVE performance of cars tested under similar circumstances. As evidence of this, look to the R&T "Road Test Summary" technical notes. These notes are quite clear about the various ways in which the 0-60 tests have been standardized across the cars tested. See p. 135 of the October 2005 edition for two important points (among others):
1. Significant, meaningful, differences in 0-60 times are differences of 0.3 seconds; and 0.5 in the 1/4 mile.
2. Acceleration numbers are obtained using drop-clutch starts and lift-throttle shifts.
So, there is a standardized procedure for conducting these tests (drop clutch starts and lift-throttle shifts and there is an established criterion for measuring meaningful 0-60 time differences (0.3 seconds). Sure, R&T concedes that there may be factors that affect test numbers, like air temperature, barometric pressure, condition of the track, and tune of the car. But, factors like these affect any standardized test and the results obtained from them.
Interestingly enough, this suggests that the 3.9 second time posted for the 997S is statistically equivalent (within 0.3 seconds) to the Carerra GT's 3.6 time!
These are legitimate issues, but guys these tests ARE about as standardized as you can get for these 0-60 runs. This is a major benefit for comparing the RELATIVE performance of cars tested under similar circumstances. As evidence of this, look to the R&T "Road Test Summary" technical notes. These notes are quite clear about the various ways in which the 0-60 tests have been standardized across the cars tested. See p. 135 of the October 2005 edition for two important points (among others):
1. Significant, meaningful, differences in 0-60 times are differences of 0.3 seconds; and 0.5 in the 1/4 mile.
2. Acceleration numbers are obtained using drop-clutch starts and lift-throttle shifts.
So, there is a standardized procedure for conducting these tests (drop clutch starts and lift-throttle shifts and there is an established criterion for measuring meaningful 0-60 time differences (0.3 seconds). Sure, R&T concedes that there may be factors that affect test numbers, like air temperature, barometric pressure, condition of the track, and tune of the car. But, factors like these affect any standardized test and the results obtained from them.
Interestingly enough, this suggests that the 3.9 second time posted for the 997S is statistically equivalent (within 0.3 seconds) to the Carerra GT's 3.6 time!
10-07-2005, 07:33 AM
#36
Originally Posted by STATMAN
Throughout this thread, concerns have been raised about: (1) what difference is really meaningful; (2) the extent to which these 0-60 tests are standardized across the various cars tested by the mag; and (3) the particular launch method used.
These are legitimate issues, but guys these tests ARE about as standardized as you can get for these 0-60 runs. This is a major benefit for comparing the RELATIVE performance of cars tested under similar circumstances. As evidence of this, look to the R&T "Road Test Summary" technical notes. These notes are quite clear about the various ways in which the 0-60 tests have been standardized across the cars tested. See p. 135 of the October 2005 edition for two important points (among others):
1. Significant, meaningful, differences in 0-60 times are differences of 0.3 seconds; and 0.5 in the 1/4 mile.
2. Acceleration numbers are obtained using drop-clutch starts and lift-throttle shifts.
So, there is a standardized procedure for conducting these tests (drop clutch starts and lift-throttle shifts and there is an established criterion for measuring meaningful 0-60 time differences (0.3 seconds). Sure, R&T concedes that there may be factors that affect test numbers, like air temperature, barometric pressure, condition of the track, and tune of the car. But, factors like these affect any standardized test and the results obtained from them.
Interestingly enough, this suggests that the 3.9 second time posted for the 997S is statistically equivalent (within 0.3 seconds) to the Carerra GT's 3.6 time!
These are legitimate issues, but guys these tests ARE about as standardized as you can get for these 0-60 runs. This is a major benefit for comparing the RELATIVE performance of cars tested under similar circumstances. As evidence of this, look to the R&T "Road Test Summary" technical notes. These notes are quite clear about the various ways in which the 0-60 tests have been standardized across the cars tested. See p. 135 of the October 2005 edition for two important points (among others):
1. Significant, meaningful, differences in 0-60 times are differences of 0.3 seconds; and 0.5 in the 1/4 mile.
2. Acceleration numbers are obtained using drop-clutch starts and lift-throttle shifts.
So, there is a standardized procedure for conducting these tests (drop clutch starts and lift-throttle shifts and there is an established criterion for measuring meaningful 0-60 time differences (0.3 seconds). Sure, R&T concedes that there may be factors that affect test numbers, like air temperature, barometric pressure, condition of the track, and tune of the car. But, factors like these affect any standardized test and the results obtained from them.
Interestingly enough, this suggests that the 3.9 second time posted for the 997S is statistically equivalent (within 0.3 seconds) to the Carerra GT's 3.6 time!
