Bodhi

Just got back from a Driver's Education event at Thunderhill, where I got the 997 out on the track for the first time. Wow. Coming from an '88 Carrera, the car is just incredible.

Anyway, I'm concerned that I may have boiled away an appreciable amount of brake fluid. The brake warning light never came on; and I did have decent stopping power all day. Beyond using the brakes really heavily during each session, it was really hot out at Thunderhill that day (90-100 degrees). Right now the brakes don't feel all that bad, but they do feel a bit spongy relative to before the DE.

When I checked the brake fluid reservoir today, it was difficult to tell what's going on.

So, my questions:
1) what color is the brake fluid that comes stock with the car? It is somewhat difficult to tell whether the reservoir is completely empty. The reservoir is housed in a plastic case that allows you to look at the top, and has a small (not so great) peep hole to see what's going on at the side. If the fluid is clear, then the seam of the reservoir container lies between the min/max markers, which makes it all the more difficult to tell.

2) is it common to lose brake fluid at DEs? I was not shy about braking hard. The instructors gave me some great tips about how to apply the brakes hard, but gradually.

3) the manual says to use "ONLY ORIGINAL PORSCHE BRAKE FLUID". Why can't I use any decent DOT 4 fluid? what a hassle to have to go back to the dealer. Thoughts? Any recommendations on decent brake fluid?

4) sounds like a smart thing to do from time to time is flush the brake fluid. How often should I do this? Before every DE? every couple DEs?

Thanks in advance for the advice.

chris walrod

Sounds as though a simple brake fluid bleed (or complete flush) will get you back in tip-top shape. Not sure what fluid is recommended for the 997, I use ATE blue (and gold) in my older air cooled car. No problems with that fluid..

rdstemler

If you change it often (often) you can try the Ford HD at about $3-4 a bottle. It does not have a good wet temp, hence the need to change it often. The dry is as good as almost any other. Heck... NASCAR guys use it and they can afford almost anything!

I'd usually do a flush rather then a bleed since it was sooo cheap!

MJones

Pentosin brake fluid, Porsche part # 000.043.203.33

Bodhi

Thanks MJones.

Question: Having checked the reservoir again, I think I am low on brake fluid. Is it enough to just fill the reservoir? Or should I have my brakes bled?

In either event, I'm also going to have someone more qualified than I look at the pads as well.

lucroberts

I am reviving this Thread as I will face the same situation next weekend on PCA DE Event in Homestead. After tracking my 83' 911 SC for more than 20 events using ATE Super Blue Racing DOT4, I will now debut my 997S on the track and was wondering if the same brake fluid is recommended. A friend of mine mentioned MOTUL. Any tips from 997ers ?

p-cardriver

I'm using Castrol SRF, others like MOTUL. I hear ATF is essentially the same as the factory fill (I don't know if that is true). Many don't like blue because it stains the reservoir, others switch between blue and gold so they can tell when fluid is fully flushed.
Seems to be a matter of personal preferences and budget, I suppose.

BTW my car is an '07 997S. I'm using Pagid yellows but thinking about blacks for the rear.

lucroberts

p-cardriver, good point. At this time I'm going with OEM brake pads (whihc I suppose are Pagid) and Michelin PSCs. Any concerns on the factory pad for the track ?

p-cardriver

Factory pads (and I also think they are Pagid) are fine for the track. They might wear faster than the yellows or oranges, but I used them for my first season without any problem. I would only be concerned if the pads are already pretty well worn down and you expect to be on the brakes hard and long.

Edgy01

It is not usual for one to lose brake fluid during the course of a DE. Nor is it usual to lose brake fluid during normal street driving. It is essentially a closed system. Some can conceivably escape past the seals at the pistons but highly unlikely and irregular. If you are forced to top-off fluids between flushes you have a brake problem. Focus upon the calipers, and the seals.

The normal DOT 4 brake fluid that comes original in the 997 is a very light amber or yellow in color,--very light. When it goes through a couple of years of service it can become clouded, as contaminants enter into it. As you may recall, brake fluid is hygroscopic (not hydroscopic!) and thus has an affinity to attract water. During use, brake fluid goes through a significant change in its temperature. With temperature changes, liquids will attract moisture. That's the stuff you need to flush from the system, periodically. I have elected to change brake fluid every 2-3 years, based upon my style of driving, and the environment within which my car is routinely driven. The factory recommendation is every 2 years. If you track your car a lot, the temperature cycles may be enhanced, thus leading to more moisture attraction,--but not necessarily. I have a friend with about 7 race cars who races all the time (and has been since he was a teenager,--now 70). He doesn't adhere to a brake fluid change routine that is frequent,--he knows that it simply doesn't need it. But get yourself a flashlight and look closely at your reservoir for the visual condition of your fluid. If it looks bad, change it.

The factory stuff is very good (DOT 4 required). However, I change my fluid this way,--I suck out the remaining junk out of the reservoir, and put in some other brand of DOT4, and use that to clear the lines, all the while, keeping up with the level in the reservoir. Then I start to put the Porsche stuff in. When done flushing all 4 calipers (at two bleed points each) then go and bleed the hydraulic point for the clutch (above the driver's side of the transaxle--follow the brake line).

Pad choices will affect the wear of your iron (I assume) rotors. Pretty much all pads today are hard on iron rotors and the race pads are tougher on them. It is doubtful to me that if you're seeking guidance in this forum that you really would need to shift to the racing pads. i personally wouldn't. At the track it can occasionally happen, that your pedal feel will change. You should always carry some extra fluid with you and top off the reservoir and bleed the fronts,--that's where the bulk of the work is being done. that will get you through the DE.

MyEmily

Just spent $250 for brake fluid flush at the dealer. Rip off? I think so. Went into service for warranty works and come out with all these recommendations, Rotor change, spark plug, front shock / struts replacement. Wanted $1800 for it. Ouch!!! Still working on it, at least I got a Cayenne for the week end use. Just wondering what will my final bill will be.

mdrums

For the track use Motul RBF600 or 660. Much higher temp Dot4 fluid than stock fluid at around $15-20 a bottle. My Porsche garage charges around $150 for a complete flush.

Edgy01

I get the Porsche brake fluid from Sunset, and then do it myself. It's so easy even a ... well, you know the rest.

What year is your car? Mileage? Needing rotors, and shocks/struts already? OMG!

MyEmily

2006 Aug C4S, 48000+ miles already.I think the service adviser just wanted to make money off me. I complained the right side tend to shimmy a little. Called me back informing me Strut show kind of leakage and will be taken cae under warranty. Than piled on spark plugs, brake rotors, belt, all fluid change etc... Already suckered me in for the oil change. I did it 4000miles ago. But I guess I didn't do it right, he said it was dirty....

I guess for a mechanically challenged auto owner, anything the dealer said to bring back his/her beloved vehicle to health will be well worth it. I tried to change the oil, learned how to change the pad through RL, yet am still not confidence enough that I did it right. I know the dealers is taking advantage of me on the services. Just wish I took auto shop class in High school!!! Anyway, it's worth it. She brought me so much joy of driving this summer.

Good Day

Edgy01

I never took auto shop in HS either,--learned all this stuff since acquiring my first Porsche at 19. It is quite easy to do without a lot of exotic tools. Just figure that every time you pay them to do the work you're foregoing buyig tools with that same money, which you can use over and over again on future work. I find it a bit satisfying doing much of my own work, so that if something happens out in the desert at night I have half a chance of getting the thing working again. I think the maintenance schedule calls for spark plugs at 60,000 miles.