Bravo Porsche!. Earnings high...but quality low.
03-25-2005, 05:17 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Raul
Sorry guys. Maybe I am out of line here. You are right!. I am upset, and logically, I cannot be very positive in my post. It is just that I dont feel that Porsche is better than other car companies. Let me tell you something: When I bought my 997s, I tried to get a discount , but the Porsche salesman told me : "Porsche is different. Porsche sells dreams, not cars, and dreams are expensive".
Anyway, I will try to be more positive in my next posts. But please, try not to be so "sensible" with the negative aspects of Porsche. Porsche build great cars, but sometimes they dont work. They don`t sell dreams, they just sell sport cars.
Anyway, I will try to be more positive in my next posts. But please, try not to be so "sensible" with the negative aspects of Porsche. Porsche build great cars, but sometimes they dont work. They don`t sell dreams, they just sell sport cars.
Recent quality survey show Porsche experiencing the largest decline. Porsche claims it is related to the Cayenne.
According to the WSJ today, since 2001 Porsche sales of SPORT CARS have declined by 43%.
These two FACTS, speak volumes about the true state of affairs of Porsche.
03-26-2005, 12:53 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by Nick
Viken you may be out of line. He indicated his opinion and reasons for his judgment regarding Porsche. Also, recent quality surveys show Porsche has taken the biggest fall. Now I know the comeback line is quality is only an issue with with the Cayenne and that is the reason for the big fall. That may or may not be so.
03-26-2005, 02:15 PM
#19
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I have had a few issues since purchasing my car in early September '05; however, my car is a daily driver, I have already put over 10,000 miles on the car, Porsche has taken care of me, and every time I have taken my car in for service I have been given a loaner (usually, a Cayenne S although once a Boxster). No, mechanical product will be "perfect" but I do believe Porsches are bullet proof, for the most part. I love my car. It is the best car I have ever owned. And, I plan to be a Pcar owner for a long time.
Yes, it can be a nuisannce to take a car in for service; however, to me, it's a nuissance simply because there is no other car I want to be driving.
Yes, it can be a nuisannce to take a car in for service; however, to me, it's a nuissance simply because there is no other car I want to be driving.
03-26-2005, 02:53 PM
#20
Originally Posted by Nick
Do not be intimated by this very pro-Porsche site. You form your judgment based on personal experience. Some have had positive ones other's negative. This much we know;
Recent quality survey show Porsche experiencing the largest decline. Porsche claims it is related to the Cayenne.
According to the WSJ today, since 2001 Porsche sales of SPORT CARS have declined by 43%.
These two FACTS, speak volumes about the true state of affairs of Porsche.
Recent quality survey show Porsche experiencing the largest decline. Porsche claims it is related to the Cayenne.
According to the WSJ today, since 2001 Porsche sales of SPORT CARS have declined by 43%.
These two FACTS, speak volumes about the true state of affairs of Porsche.
Now, that information being so basic, I'm willing to bet that if the WSJ did publish that data, then the WSJ did NOT attribute that data directly to quality. That would mean that YOU attributed that data to the conclusion of quality and brought that false conclusion here, which would suggest that you have an agenda that is anti-Porsche.
"Lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli
"It's so easy to see, once you pull your head out...." - Me
Last edited by JohnnyNarcosis; 03-26-2005 at 08:20 PM. Reason: punctuation
03-26-2005, 08:39 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by JohnnyNarcosis
The currently popular "logic by statistical omission". Congratulations, Nick! Intelligent thinkers sometimes question the baseline choice when talking about statistics. What do we know about the year 2001 as a baseline choice? Well, I don't know for sure but it occurs to me that... due to systemic economic downturns and the "dot.com" bust the entire North American supply of people with enough money to AFFORD a Porsche has dropped substantially since 2001. In fact, if the number of people with enough money to afford a Porsche has dropped by more than 43%, then sales are actually UP!
Now, that information being so basic, I'm willing to bet that if the WSJ did publish that data, then the WSJ did NOT attribute that data directly to quality. That would mean that YOU attributed that data to quality, which would prove you have an axe to grind.
"Lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli
"It's so easy to see, once you pull your head out...." - Me
Now, that information being so basic, I'm willing to bet that if the WSJ did publish that data, then the WSJ did NOT attribute that data directly to quality. That would mean that YOU attributed that data to quality, which would prove you have an axe to grind.
"Lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli
"It's so easy to see, once you pull your head out...." - Me
Viken do I bash Porsche? You bet! I have problems with a company that is not customer oriented and exploits its devoted cusomer base. I will acknowledge I am in the minority on a dedicated Porsche site, but having a contrarian view should not prevent me from posting. As it is in driving, having BALANCE on a chat site is a better approach.
03-26-2005, 09:24 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by Nick
Viken do I bash Porsche? You bet! I have problems with a company that is not customer oriented and exploits its devoted cusomer base. I will acknowledge I am in the minority on a dedicated Porsche site, but having a contrarian view should not prevent me from posting. As it is in driving, having BALANCE on a chat site is a better approach.
Oh, and by the way, no one suggested that you don't post on this site or any other site. Your views are always welcome, but make some worthwhile contributions every once in a while.
03-26-2005, 11:13 PM
#24
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by Raul
... Anyway, I will try to be more positive in my next posts. But please, try not to be so "sensible" with the negative aspects of Porsche. Porsche build great cars, but sometimes they dont work. They don`t sell dreams, they just sell sport cars.
Raul: the word is "sensitive" NOT "sensible".
Most members of this forum are very sensible. You and a few others unfortunately are not. 
03-26-2005, 11:30 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by Nick
With leasing programs being what they are today, I suspect over the majority of the people in the US can afford a Porsche ...
03-26-2005, 11:46 PM
#26
Originally Posted by Nick
It is NOT an exclusive or special car. It is a fine sport car nothing more.
I'll leave the "...exclusive or special..." cars for the exclusive and special men.
03-27-2005, 12:30 AM
#27
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by JohnnyNarcosis
I think that is the most bang on assessment anyone could give any sports car and you gave it to Porsche.
I'll leave the "...exclusive or special..." cars for the exclusive and special men.
I'll leave the "...exclusive or special..." cars for the exclusive and special men.
It has been clear for some time that Nick is a special man, who lives in a parallel, exclusive, universe. But wait... I'm impressed... he knows what a sports car is, he just chooses not to drive one.
03-27-2005, 01:10 AM
#28
J.D. Powers & Associates research indicates that Porsche quality dramatically declined in 2004. This was primarily due to the introdution of the Cayenne.
First-year Porsche model runs always are a crapshoot.
Entirely new products often have teething trouble, and the effects were visible in the rankings. Both Porsche and Volkswagen declined; each company introduced its first sport utility vehicle last year. Porsche plunged from among the best to among the worst.
"This performance is due almost entirely to the Cayenne," the new Porsche S.U.V., said Mr. Walters of J. D. Power. By contrast, the Porsche 911 was the top-ranked premium sports car, and the company led the most recent long-term dependability survey.
Martin Peters, a spokesman for Porsche, said, "We are disappointed with the results for the Cayenne, but the majority of the problems were related to features and controls," rather than mechanical or structural defects.
Lemon Law Specialists
First-year Porsche model runs always are a crapshoot.
Entirely new products often have teething trouble, and the effects were visible in the rankings. Both Porsche and Volkswagen declined; each company introduced its first sport utility vehicle last year. Porsche plunged from among the best to among the worst.
"This performance is due almost entirely to the Cayenne," the new Porsche S.U.V., said Mr. Walters of J. D. Power. By contrast, the Porsche 911 was the top-ranked premium sports car, and the company led the most recent long-term dependability survey.
Martin Peters, a spokesman for Porsche, said, "We are disappointed with the results for the Cayenne, but the majority of the problems were related to features and controls," rather than mechanical or structural defects.
Lemon Law Specialists
03-27-2005, 12:47 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Viken
Oh, and by the way, no one suggested that you don't post on this site or any other site. Your views are always welcome, but make some worthwhile contributions every once in a while.
If Ferrari produces a lemon they will hear from me in spades.
If they produce a look alike cheaper model at about one half the price then they will hear from me.
When Ferrari openly admits that their intention is to share over 50% of the cheaper model parts with the twice expensive model they will hear from me.
If they increase their production by over 100% to line their pockets and cause resale value of their customer ownership to tumble they will hear from me.
When Ferrari denies hesitation problems despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary from their customers they will hear from me.
When Ferrari goes on record and state any type of track work voids the warranty they will hear from me.
When Ferrari runs away from racing and yet markets its cars based on racing heritage and success then they will hear from me.
When Ferrari denies a serious RMS problem with a number of 996's AND 997"s they will hear from me.
When Ferrari sells a revolutionary new model(like the 996) and claims it is the culmination of 50 years of sport car experience then later on its chief engineer publicly admits the the 996 was nothing more than a stop gap measure restricted in engineering because of cost considerations, then they will hear from me.
Finally, when Ferrari closes down their design and styling facility and begins to produce cars that look the way they did 40 years ago, then they will hear from me.
And you from Carlbad CA, your right, all of you are much smarter than me. I bow to your incredible intellect but will commiserate on your behalf regarding the financial disaster of your car ownership.
03-27-2005, 01:35 PM
#30
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Nick,
Thats all fine and dandy since you own a Ferrari sportcar, makes sense to complain about Ferrari... but here is the funny part, you don't own a Porsche sportcar!! I still don't know what is the hidden motivation behind all those hours you spend behind a computer in the Porsche forums bashing a car you don't even own and never will... and don't tell me because you are the crusader of the sportcar world altruistically dedicating your free time in favor of us sportcar enthusiast, cause let me tell you its a sad way to spend your free time and Porsche doesn't give a heck you say either and therefore still makes great sportcars for the enthusiast, as opposed to what you want. Be happy with your car and go out and "drive" it and forget about other people's.
Thats all fine and dandy since you own a Ferrari sportcar, makes sense to complain about Ferrari... but here is the funny part, you don't own a Porsche sportcar!! I still don't know what is the hidden motivation behind all those hours you spend behind a computer in the Porsche forums bashing a car you don't even own and never will... and don't tell me because you are the crusader of the sportcar world altruistically dedicating your free time in favor of us sportcar enthusiast, cause let me tell you its a sad way to spend your free time and Porsche doesn't give a heck you say either and therefore still makes great sportcars for the enthusiast, as opposed to what you want. Be happy with your car and go out and "drive" it and forget about other people's.