Here comes the Panamera....
07-27-2005, 09:03 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
Most likely it will be based off a simplified Cayanne chassis. Front engined V8, awd availability.
That is my guess, but in my opinion the most logical use of existent technology that expands the Porsche brand to 4 season use. The current SUV is way over-engineered for the use 99.999% of suburban mom's or exec dads use. A sporty 4 door competitor to a BMW 645, or AMG Benz seems most logical to keep showroom traffic high and engineering costs low. I will accept any wagers under a buck. AS
That is my guess, but in my opinion the most logical use of existent technology that expands the Porsche brand to 4 season use. The current SUV is way over-engineered for the use 99.999% of suburban mom's or exec dads use. A sporty 4 door competitor to a BMW 645, or AMG Benz seems most logical to keep showroom traffic high and engineering costs low. I will accept any wagers under a buck. AS
07-27-2005, 10:28 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
07-28-2005, 12:15 AM
#19
Banned
RUETERS
Updated: 6:08 p.m. ET July 27, 2005
FRANKFURT - Porsche will invest some $1.21 billion to develop a new four-door, four-seat “Panamera” sports coupe with a sales target of at least 20,000 units a year from 2009, it said on Wednesday.
Ending months of speculation, the German luxury carmaker said management and board members had finally given the green light for the hotly anticipated fourth model line, equipped with various front-mounted engines and featuring rear-wheel drive."
The German luxury carmaker. So that's what Porsche is now known as in the business world, as a luxury carmaker? What a sad, sad commentary. I've said it before (when the Cayenne was first proposed) and I'll say it again, they should have come up with a new division and given it a new name, à la Nissan with Infiniti and Toyota with Lexus -- that's just basic Marketing 101. That would have preserved the association of the name Porsche with that of pure sports cars, à la Ferrari, and given them room for growth and expansion into the luxury market without watering down the heritage they built over the painstaking years in the sports car business.
If they keep this up the name Porsche will become like the name Chevrolet. And the 911 will just be another offering in the product line like the Corvette is to Chevrolet. Expect any day now the imposition of daytime running lights and other idiotic features generally expected of producers for the masses.
Updated: 6:08 p.m. ET July 27, 2005
FRANKFURT - Porsche will invest some $1.21 billion to develop a new four-door, four-seat “Panamera” sports coupe with a sales target of at least 20,000 units a year from 2009, it said on Wednesday.
Ending months of speculation, the German luxury carmaker said management and board members had finally given the green light for the hotly anticipated fourth model line, equipped with various front-mounted engines and featuring rear-wheel drive."
The German luxury carmaker. So that's what Porsche is now known as in the business world, as a luxury carmaker? What a sad, sad commentary. I've said it before (when the Cayenne was first proposed) and I'll say it again, they should have come up with a new division and given it a new name, à la Nissan with Infiniti and Toyota with Lexus -- that's just basic Marketing 101. That would have preserved the association of the name Porsche with that of pure sports cars, à la Ferrari, and given them room for growth and expansion into the luxury market without watering down the heritage they built over the painstaking years in the sports car business.
If they keep this up the name Porsche will become like the name Chevrolet. And the 911 will just be another offering in the product line like the Corvette is to Chevrolet. Expect any day now the imposition of daytime running lights and other idiotic features generally expected of producers for the masses.
07-28-2005, 08:19 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
Ben,
I don't agree. Whatever keeps the company healthy is better for us. Rising standards for fuel efficiency, emissions, safety, reliability etc require spiraling investment. If they want to stay current, they need to keep moving. No business stays the same, it either shrinks or grows. If all they had was a successful 911 line, others would try to compete for that (like Aston).
If you've driven a Cayenne/Toureg, you know it's an excellent SUV. I didn't need one, but suddenly there was one more choice. Then, my oldest son needed one, and the Toureg was easily the best value.
My tt is still as good as it ever was, and frankly I don't know that I want one much better. But when my Audi or BMW are due for replacement, I'll be glad to consider the Porsche. My guess is that it will be more fun to drive than a Lexus. AS
I don't agree. Whatever keeps the company healthy is better for us. Rising standards for fuel efficiency, emissions, safety, reliability etc require spiraling investment. If they want to stay current, they need to keep moving. No business stays the same, it either shrinks or grows. If all they had was a successful 911 line, others would try to compete for that (like Aston).
If you've driven a Cayenne/Toureg, you know it's an excellent SUV. I didn't need one, but suddenly there was one more choice. Then, my oldest son needed one, and the Toureg was easily the best value.
My tt is still as good as it ever was, and frankly I don't know that I want one much better. But when my Audi or BMW are due for replacement, I'll be glad to consider the Porsche. My guess is that it will be more fun to drive than a Lexus. AS
07-28-2005, 11:15 AM
#21
Banned
AS,
You missed my point entirely. Reread my post. I never said they shouldn’t build more cars or introduce new models. Or that they should just stick to one "successful 911 line." To do so would be idiotic, and I agree with you there that the business wouldn’t survive for long using that business model, as was almost the case had not the Boxster been introduced when it was to save the company from being swallowed up by a competitor, or some other unfavorable outcome.
My point is, and I’ll say it again, that they should have come up with a new division when they introduced the Cayenne that would be dedicated to building cars that are more of a luxury sport variety, which clearly the Cayenne and the proposed Panamera would fall under. The new division could have taken a name that is closely associated with Porsche, say, a family surname in their lineage to show and emphasize the relationship of the new division to the parent company. And it would have plenty of room for growth and expansion to compete in that lucrative luxury sport market.
The Porsche badge would then be worn only by the sports cars (CGT, 911, Boxster, Cayman,….) and the name Porsche would forever by associated with performance sports cars, as it was in the beginning, perpetuating the tradition of Professor Ferdinand Porsche Sr. This may not be apparent to all of us now, but future generations will no longer think of performance sports cars when they hear the name Porsche. It will no longer have the mystique it still has among sports cars enthusiasts today. They will instead think expensive cars, a la Mercedes Benz. The business press already associates the name Porsche with "luxury carmaker."
You missed my point entirely. Reread my post. I never said they shouldn’t build more cars or introduce new models. Or that they should just stick to one "successful 911 line." To do so would be idiotic, and I agree with you there that the business wouldn’t survive for long using that business model, as was almost the case had not the Boxster been introduced when it was to save the company from being swallowed up by a competitor, or some other unfavorable outcome.
My point is, and I’ll say it again, that they should have come up with a new division when they introduced the Cayenne that would be dedicated to building cars that are more of a luxury sport variety, which clearly the Cayenne and the proposed Panamera would fall under. The new division could have taken a name that is closely associated with Porsche, say, a family surname in their lineage to show and emphasize the relationship of the new division to the parent company. And it would have plenty of room for growth and expansion to compete in that lucrative luxury sport market.
The Porsche badge would then be worn only by the sports cars (CGT, 911, Boxster, Cayman,….) and the name Porsche would forever by associated with performance sports cars, as it was in the beginning, perpetuating the tradition of Professor Ferdinand Porsche Sr. This may not be apparent to all of us now, but future generations will no longer think of performance sports cars when they hear the name Porsche. It will no longer have the mystique it still has among sports cars enthusiasts today. They will instead think expensive cars, a la Mercedes Benz. The business press already associates the name Porsche with "luxury carmaker."
07-28-2005, 01:42 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by OCBen
AS,
You missed my point entirely. Reread my post. I never said they shouldn’t build more cars or introduce new models. Or that they should just stick to one "successful 911 line." To do so would be idiotic, and I agree with you there that the business wouldn’t survive for long using that business model, as was almost the case had not the Boxster been introduced when it was to save the company from being swallowed up by a competitor, or some other unfavorable outcome.
My point is, and I’ll say it again, that they should have come up with a new division when they introduced the Cayenne that would be dedicated to building cars that are more of a luxury sport variety, which clearly the Cayenne and the proposed Panamera would fall under. The new division could have taken a name that is closely associated with Porsche, say, a family surname in their lineage to show and emphasize the relationship of the new division to the parent company. And it would have plenty of room for growth and expansion to compete in that lucrative luxury sport market.
The Porsche badge would then be worn only by the sports cars (CGT, 911, Boxster, Cayman,….) and the name Porsche would forever by associated with performance sports cars, as it was in the beginning, perpetuating the tradition of Professor Ferdinand Porsche Sr. This may not be apparent to all of us now, but future generations will no longer think of performance sports cars when they hear the name Porsche. It will no longer have the mystique it still has among sports cars enthusiasts today. They will instead think expensive cars, a la Mercedes Benz. The business press already associates the name Porsche with "luxury carmaker."
You missed my point entirely. Reread my post. I never said they shouldn’t build more cars or introduce new models. Or that they should just stick to one "successful 911 line." To do so would be idiotic, and I agree with you there that the business wouldn’t survive for long using that business model, as was almost the case had not the Boxster been introduced when it was to save the company from being swallowed up by a competitor, or some other unfavorable outcome.
My point is, and I’ll say it again, that they should have come up with a new division when they introduced the Cayenne that would be dedicated to building cars that are more of a luxury sport variety, which clearly the Cayenne and the proposed Panamera would fall under. The new division could have taken a name that is closely associated with Porsche, say, a family surname in their lineage to show and emphasize the relationship of the new division to the parent company. And it would have plenty of room for growth and expansion to compete in that lucrative luxury sport market.
The Porsche badge would then be worn only by the sports cars (CGT, 911, Boxster, Cayman,….) and the name Porsche would forever by associated with performance sports cars, as it was in the beginning, perpetuating the tradition of Professor Ferdinand Porsche Sr. This may not be apparent to all of us now, but future generations will no longer think of performance sports cars when they hear the name Porsche. It will no longer have the mystique it still has among sports cars enthusiasts today. They will instead think expensive cars, a la Mercedes Benz. The business press already associates the name Porsche with "luxury carmaker."
With the possible price of the Panamera perhaps they could name a separate division "POORSCHE" to represent customer bank accounts after writing the check.
07-28-2005, 02:31 PM
#24
Banned
Originally Posted by CoochasTT
I see what you mean Ben but it's a hard one to call IMO - either way, Porsche will get criticized.
With the possible price of the Panamera perhaps they could name a separate division "POORSCHE" to represent customer bank accounts after writing the check.
With the possible price of the Panamera perhaps they could name a separate division "POORSCHE" to represent customer bank accounts after writing the check.
07-28-2005, 02:41 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by OCBen
Yeah, it's easy being an armchair CEO. And I'm sure Wunderking (sp?) and his board of directors must have mulled over that very issue of whether or not to start up a new division. I'm sure the marketing types, steeped in the specialized subject of brand management, would have pushed for a new division within Porsche. Sure, hindsight is 20/20, and at the time it may have seemed too risky a move to do that, not knowing if the Cayenne was going to be a success or not. They can still do that, and may yet, before the release of the Panamera. So that in the first model year of the Panamera the Cayenne can then sport the new badge as well. Rebranding is not that difficult to do. Datsun did it successfully circa 1984.
It will be interesting to see what P does.
07-28-2005, 02:52 PM
#26
Banned
Originally Posted by CoochasTT
The Datsun is an interesting case example for sure.
It will be interesting to see what P does.
It will be interesting to see what P does.
Yeah, I remember the Datsun example well, having had my '85 Z since day one shortly after college (okay, I'm dating myself), and remembering the massive campaign for the name change. It used to be "Datsun, We are Driven", remember that? Then came "The Name is Nissan". In fact the '84 Zs (and some of the early '85s I believe) had the dual name plate on the back, Datsun on the right side and Nissan on the left.
07-28-2005, 03:18 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by OCBen
Yep, stay tuned!
Yeah, I remember the Datsun example well, having had my '85 Z since day one shortly after college (okay, I'm dating myself), and remembering the massive campaign for the name change. It used to be "Datsun, We are Driven", remember that? Then came "The Name is Nissan". In fact the '84 Zs (and some of the early '85s I believe) had the dual name plate on the back, Datsun on the right side and Nissan on the left.
Yeah, I remember the Datsun example well, having had my '85 Z since day one shortly after college (okay, I'm dating myself), and remembering the massive campaign for the name change. It used to be "Datsun, We are Driven", remember that? Then came "The Name is Nissan". In fact the '84 Zs (and some of the early '85s I believe) had the dual name plate on the back, Datsun on the right side and Nissan on the left.
Off to work I go now,...have a good one Ben.
