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I am fortunate enough to own a C2S as well as a GT3. I love them both and have a blast driving them both. They are both 997 Gens and are so similar but so different.
I can tell you the two biggest changes to my C2S that make it a blast are 1) Seats. GT3 Seats just keep me planted where I should be in corners. The second is a very aggressive track alignment. GT3 Lower control arms and a few upgraded components make the car's turn in and canyon carving a complete blast. OK I lied, tires and brakes too. You don't have to spend big bucks but work with a local shop to dial it in. I'd avoid going in directions like monoball and coilovers that will reduce the one advantage the C2S really has over the GT3... comfort. I can hop in the C2S and do a 12 hour road trip and it's fun, fast, quiet enough to enjoy an audio book and comfortable. The GT3 is a hot rod and after 5 hours I am toast. It's loud, bumpy, the clutch weighs a ton, the shifter requires dedication and I can't really hear the stereo above 50mph unless I know the song like the back of my hand and am basically filling in the blanks from memory.
To me the C2S is a little more fun at slower speeds. The 2nd & 3rd gear range through the twisties. The GT3 is just too serious in that realm. But the GT3 comes alive when the stakes are higher and the torque and power have a chance to shine.
What about a tune? I didn’t see that anywhere. I also had the Fabspeed intake on my C2 as well as their headers and full exhaust. With some suspension mods and importantly, nicely dialed in by my track oriented Indy shop, with the tune I had on it, it was a blast to drive both on and off the track.
I own a 997.1 GT3. I can have just as much fun in my friends 987 Cayman R. Sometimes, maybe even more fun because you can exploit the car a bit more with less power and the car costs less.
I came out of a 997.2 C2S PDK which I didn't enjoy that much, even with PSE and Sharkwerks bypass. Largely could have been PDK, but the other items could have been what I describe below.
I'll agree @Hella-Buggin' , seats make a huge difference. My C2S had ventilated 14 way seats. They felt less inspiring than the seats in my Audi. Felt like I was sitting on top of the car, didn't have much bolstering etc. Cayman R has the same seat design as my GT3, just in leather which are the 2 way sport seats plus. If I would have had the 2 way sport seats plus or 16 way adaptive sport seats, I think that would have helped a lot. A properly loud, yet good sounding exhaust also makes a difference. My friend has FVD on his Cayman R. It sounds amazing between 3-4k RPMs which is where you're going to be during a lot of your driving. One of the issues I had with my C2S was that it was only loud at like 6k+, which I wasn't going to be driving at all of the time. If I would have kept my C2S, doing a full Tubi, or comparable system, would have been a must. I do think the 3.8L motor in the 997.2 C2S is harder to get a really good sound out of compared to the 3.4L, but I don't have enough experience with the 3.6L to comment. 3.8L motor in the 991.1 C2S sounds amazing just with PSE.
I think the shifter in the Cayman R is very good still, it's a lot easier than the GT3, which is actually good in some ways. It still feels direct and precise. It doesn't feel like BMW shifters which have always felt rubbery to me and I had a manual transmission BMW I daily drove for a couple years.
Get a track alignment and take the car to a track. All this mental gymnastics before using the car fully is just wasted effort.
Once you have some track time then the stuff on the car that would be helped by upgrading should show itself. Work with an instructor and you'll likely find that the best change is the driver learning to drive the car.
Also, any 997.2, even a GT3 would likely still need a suspension refresh if the car is stock. They are all still 11 or 12 years old, at minimum. So its not like buying a different 997.2, even a GT3 would be a magic bullet that needs nothing.
Sounds to me that you won't be happy without a GT car. There is a substantial delta between a GT3 of any vintage and even your modded car with additional upgrades. At least if you throw money at your current car, you can drive it. Many folks buy the GT car then are afraid to put the miles on it, resale you know.
Numeric shifter is a good upgrade I love mine, also throttle commmander really sharpens up the feel. I know people don’t believe that but it’s true.
Rear control arms are very vague feeling if they are stock old rubber bushings. No fun at the high end of the limit, in my experience anyway. Really easy to tune the chassis above stock gt3 levels, way cheaper than buying a GT3. Of course you will loose comfort but that doesn’t need to be said, it’s obvious .
The engine tho, that’s a much bigger issue lol.
I’d be afraid to drive a 997 GT car. And it would probably just sit in my garage.
Numeric shifter is a good upgrade I love mine, also throttle commmander really sharpens up the feel. I know people don’t believe that but it’s true.
Rear control arms are very vague feeling if they are stock old rubber bushings. No fun at the high end of the limit, in my experience anyway. Really easy to tune the chassis above stock gt3 levels, way cheaper than buying a GT3. Of course you will loose comfort but that doesn’t need to be said, it’s obvious .
The engine tho, that’s a much bigger issue lol.
I’d be afraid to drive a 997 GT car. And it would probably just sit in my garage.
+1, numeric and a throttle device (I used a sprintbooster on my 997.2) both worked wonders for the driving experience.
Agreed. I've owned a 997.1 S, 997.2 GT3, and now a GTS, all highly modified. No matter how much you mod your Carrera, you will not get close to the sound and feel of a GT3. The intake howl and high revving engine are incomparable. The only exception to this is if you transplant a GT3 engine/tranny into your car. Given the current market value and likelyhood GT3s will continue to appreciate (I believe the GT3 will become a $250-300K car relatively soon), it might start making more sense to source a GT3 engine/tranny and do something not very many have done: hybrid Carrera/GT3. The value and cost proposition is starting to make more sense, plus you get the benefit of a more comfortable driving experience: compliant ride and quieter.
The biggest complaint I had with my GT3 was it was loud and too harsh to live with every day. You have to drive it like you stole it in order to get it into the sweet spot. It doesn't like normal city driving. The engine thrives when it is on boil, not below 4000 rpm. I've been seriously thinking about doing the same with my GTS and making my own version of a 992 S/T. With the sound deadening and softer suspension, it would be easier to live with.
If you want to scratch your GT3 itch, get one before they get too expensive, or go the engine transplant route. Or simply enjoy your Carrera for what it is. It is a pretty amazing car in its own right.
Originally Posted by Prairiedawg
Sounds to me that you won't be happy without a GT car. There is a substantial delta between a GT3 of any vintage and even your modded car with additional upgrades. At least if you throw money at your current car, you can drive it. Many folks buy the GT car then are afraid to put the miles on it, resale you know.
Agreed. I've owned a 997.1 S, 997.2 GT3, and now a GTS, all highly modified. No matter how much you mod your Carrera, you will not get close to the sound and feel of a GT3. The intake howl and high revving engine are incomparable. The only exception to this is if you transplant a GT3 engine/tranny into your car. Given the current market value and likelyhood GT3s will continue to appreciate (I believe the GT3 will become a $250-300K car relatively soon), it might start making more sense to source a GT3 engine/tranny and do something not very many have done: hybrid Carrera/GT3. The value and cost proposition is starting to make more sense, plus you get the benefit of a more comfortable driving experience: compliant ride and quieter.
The biggest complaint I had with my GT3 was it was loud and too harsh to live with every day. You have to drive it like you stole it in order to get it into the sweet spot. It doesn't like normal city driving. The engine thrives when it is on boil, not below 4000 rpm. I've been seriously thinking about doing the same with my GTS and making my own version of a 992 S/T. With the sound deadening and softer suspension, it would be easier to live with.
If you want to scratch your GT3 itch, get one before they get too expensive, or go the engine transplant route. Or simply enjoy your Carrera for what it is. It is a pretty amazing car in its own right.
Busta- could you pm me your number? Would love a quick chat if you’re able.
Also, I came across this a while ago- looks like a decent amount of fab work / some chassis cutting that makes me nervous. But still interesting given that it is a relatively cost effective solution.
As someone who has to make do with a Carrera (the horror!), I find that I enjoy the car a lot more driving new fun roads. Maybe just give yourself some time and check out some websites / apps to help you build a fun, novel route.
02-04-2024, 01:08 AM
