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In the process of buying a 2005 997 base 911 convertible with 70k miles. It's a March build date. The seller says it runs perfect with no ticking, or oil burning and just wondering if there is any issues with the 05's that maybe I should not buy it? Thoughts? I know the IMS was a concern but totally overblown my social media but bore score is a possible problem. With 70k miles I would think it would have had issues by now? Any inside would be helpful. Thanks guys!
Before you buy it get a PPI (Pre-purchase inspection) at Porsche Indy Shop or a dealer (Some dealers will do it)' As a part of PPI get the DME computer report of Engine Over Revs (Manual Transmission) and Cam Deviation report - PPI about $250 Also get Bore Scope Inspection thru the Spark Plug holes - It's a $250-$300 additional cost to do it thru the Spark Plug holes and worth every penny - Make sure they provide you with 2 photos of each cylinder
March 2005 is an early build date and most likely has the smaller more problematic IMS Bearing.
Here is the engine# designation for the 3.8L "S" engine and 3.6L "Base" engine and whether it has the smaller or larger bearing:
Engine#'s for IMS Bearing size:
3.8L S engine---->The smaller IMS Bearing in the 3.8L motors are in motors up to M97/01 68509790 ---> Engine#'s from M97/01 68509791 forward have the larger revised more robust IMS Bearing.
3.6L Base engine---->For 3.6L motors, if the engine# s M96/05 69507476 and higher it has the larger more robust IMS bearing.
**You would be foolish not to get the above items inspected. It's a crap shoot buying Porsche with no PPI and have to check for scoring.
Although small %, the smaller IMS Bearing can detonate and destroy the engine and recommend LN Engineering Solution or replace Bearing IF smaller Bearing.
Bore Scoring increases oil consumption and will eventually destroy the engine - At 70K miles, Inspecting thru the Spark Plig Holes will reveal if there is scoring.
Good luck.
Last edited by groovzilla; 12-09-2023 at 02:02 PM.
As above, do your due diligence, PPI, scope etc. ..... and you should be fine. The 997.1s are a great buy right now, assuming you find a clean example. One good thing is that the base 3.6 engines are more robust when it comes to potential bore scoring. Not immune, but less susceptible. And it looks like you're in Texas, which is another bonus, assuming the car is also from around there. Engines in warmer-weather 997.1s have a tendency to hold up better too. If the IMS bearing hasn't been done, you can take care of it, but just factor that into the pricing.
I was in the same boat earlier this year on a 45K mile, '05 manual base coupe from Southern Cali./Arizona. About 3500 miles later, I couldn't be happier. I did a bunch of preventive upgrades right away, including the IMS, and now have a great 911 that has many years of fun ahead of it. It's been flawless.
The oil consumption would certainly be an indication of bore scoring along with any pinging sound when hot or cold. I know to look at the exhaust and see if they are dark especially on the drivers side......and yes the car has lived its whole life in a southern atmosphere so that certainly helps. Thanks for the feedback guys!
Also, talking with a Porsche only Indy, and he said all cars have some kind of scoring no matter the year. He said the IMS I(996 & 997) is certainly overblown because of social media (seen less then 1% in 30 years) but the bore scoring issue is more relevant but there again "mostly blown out of proportion". He gave me some pointers to look for and listen to.
Agree with all of the above. Maintenance history?
If the IMS Brg and clutch are original, might consider prophylactic replacement of both.
Might consider same for water pump. These cars eat them and failure can sent impeller parts into the motor.
Motor mounts? One of the exhaust sides will be lower.
An oil analysis could help ID engine problems.
There is prolly a buyers guide checklist here, maybe DIY above.
Dont worry. Great cars if you rule out some of the rare problems. Good luck & keep us posted.
Also, talking with a Porsche only Indy, and he said all cars have some kind of scoring no matter the year. He said the IMS I(996 & 997) is certainly overblown because of social media (seen less then 1% in 30 years) but the bore scoring issue is more relevant but there again "mostly blown out of proportion". He gave me some pointers to look for and listen to.
Why don't you as some of the RL members (who have spent $25-$30K rebuilding their engines) how "blown out of proportion" the Bore Scoring concern is?
Why don't you as some of the RL members (who have spent $25-$30K rebuilding their engines) how "blown out of proportion" the Bore Scoring concern is?
I understand what you’re saying but if we had a list of failures and compared to total production figures, I’d estimate it’s actually a pretty low failure rate not commensurate with the amount of attention given to it.
I understand what you’re saying but if we had a list of failures and compared to total production figures, I’d estimate it’s actually a pretty low failure rate not commensurate with the amount of attention given to it.
A $250 thru Spark Plug Hole Inspection on a +70K mile 997 is worth every dollar and IMO you are a foolish buyer not to have it performed.
I’m of the mindset it’s not if, but when it gets bore scoring. Groove recommends borescope ad naseum, but for good reason. Don’t let the emotion and excitement get the better of you and have a potential $25-35K bill waiting for you. pay for the borescope and post up the results here or better yet, send the, to LN and get their opinion. Or roll the dice. Your call.
Agree with others, DME and bore scope from sump are a must to me. If you're concerned with maintenance costs or the potential repair of these issues, look into a 987.2 Cayman or Cayman S. Much lower chance of bore scoring and no IMS.
It's safe to say that everyone responding to my list, that your cars all have some sort of scoring, it goes without saying. I appreciate all the responses and thank you all for the insight. I'm going to look at the car and it if runs good without issue maybe I'll buy it. Thanks again guys!
Check the engine number. From what I've read, some 05 model had the larger IMS. More than likely later 05 production cars but for peace of mind check the number anyway.
Just to show the original poster here that there is not a total consensus on some important issues. All of these .1 engines have some scoring is simply not accepted by all here. Scoring is bad and is the start of the engine's death. This is a contested issue here. For me, I would never buy an engine with any evidence of scoring at all... none. No scuffs, no scratches... I want it clean or I would walk. Lotsa opinions here and I think the issue is worth describing the counter opinions.
12-09-2023 | 01:36 PM
Buying a 05 997
