Parts Cost - Jake Raby - Scarcity and Cost
08-19-2023, 04:42 PM
#1
RL Community Team
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Parts Cost - Jake Raby - Scarcity and Cost
https://www.hagerty.com/media/market...getting-scarce
Apparently I found this out when sourcing control arms. Sheesh!
Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)
Apparently I found this out when sourcing control arms. Sheesh!
Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)
Last edited by Bruce In Philly; 08-19-2023 at 04:50 PM.
Popular Reply
08-20-2023, 07:56 PM
Rennlist Member
COVID had a lot to do with some of these issues which are still present. Just to give one example, aluminum cost is still twice it was before COVID. Specialty steel alloys haven't come back to pre-COVID levels either.
I haven't read the article in question, but one of the issues that has been discussed ad nauseum in the SAE and AREA magazines is that the push for electrification is making the OEMs pivot and the planned obsolescence of the internal combustion engine is making supporting older models with ICE less profitable. That means in some cases the parts aren't going to be offered anymore or they are off-shored to China. This might not be as big an issue for the 996 and 997 right now, but this is a huge problem for older aircooled Porsche models and other older classic or performance models.
I'll just make a casual observation. There has been a lot of consolidation of OEM suppliers as well as aftermarket companies. Even Porsche is subbing more components to India and China to get costs down.
The Beru coils were once made in Germany, they are now made in China. We never had a problem with them but now we've had several literally melt down upon installation.
When Porsche switched to Siemens and cut Bosch off cold turkey, lower volume lines like injectors for the older aircooled Porsches went NLA. For a while there, we couldn't even get injectors for 996 and 997 models. We can now, but they aren't made in Germany - they are now from China.
The Mahle 993 secondary oil filter was made in Germany, but it's now made in China. Mahle has also discontinued certain aircooled Porsche cylinders as well. - not enough volume to make it worth while. If you buy a Porsche 914 Mahle piston and cylinder set, it's a repackaged set of Chinese AA P+C's.
Wix was purchased by Mann-Hummel, and some filters have been moved to Mexico or China.
Even parts still made in Germany can have issues. The Genuine Porsche AOS can be bad out of the box. From what Jake has told me, he tests them before using them.
I could go on and on.
There are other issues. Most recently we received timing chains and tensioners from Porsche that were mis-labelled. With the timing chain, unless you have the original that came out to compare it to, you won't notice until you go to put the heads on and the chains aren't long enough. Putting the wrong tensioner in can cause issues since they are location specific on the engine due to differences in oil pressure at each location on the engine. This requires great situational awareness and everything has to be checked.
I can cite many issues we come across on a daily basis, even from those that I would consider top tier suppliers. We spend A LOT of time doing quality control on parts we don't even manufacture because of this.
What we need is more companies on-shoring manufacturing, not off-shoring, but that isn't going to happen as companies get squeezed on profit margins. Another issue are the **** and PE groups that are swallowing up these companies want to make their books look good so they can sell the company off and make a quick return on their investment, usually at the expense of quality.
Lastly there are low quality suppliers coming in to fill these voids and unsuspecting customers are the victims with this race to the bottom (usually driven purely by cost/price). The "Walmart Effect" is just one example of this.
I haven't read the article in question, but one of the issues that has been discussed ad nauseum in the SAE and AREA magazines is that the push for electrification is making the OEMs pivot and the planned obsolescence of the internal combustion engine is making supporting older models with ICE less profitable. That means in some cases the parts aren't going to be offered anymore or they are off-shored to China. This might not be as big an issue for the 996 and 997 right now, but this is a huge problem for older aircooled Porsche models and other older classic or performance models.
I'll just make a casual observation. There has been a lot of consolidation of OEM suppliers as well as aftermarket companies. Even Porsche is subbing more components to India and China to get costs down.
The Beru coils were once made in Germany, they are now made in China. We never had a problem with them but now we've had several literally melt down upon installation.
When Porsche switched to Siemens and cut Bosch off cold turkey, lower volume lines like injectors for the older aircooled Porsches went NLA. For a while there, we couldn't even get injectors for 996 and 997 models. We can now, but they aren't made in Germany - they are now from China.
The Mahle 993 secondary oil filter was made in Germany, but it's now made in China. Mahle has also discontinued certain aircooled Porsche cylinders as well. - not enough volume to make it worth while. If you buy a Porsche 914 Mahle piston and cylinder set, it's a repackaged set of Chinese AA P+C's.
Wix was purchased by Mann-Hummel, and some filters have been moved to Mexico or China.
Even parts still made in Germany can have issues. The Genuine Porsche AOS can be bad out of the box. From what Jake has told me, he tests them before using them.
I could go on and on.
There are other issues. Most recently we received timing chains and tensioners from Porsche that were mis-labelled. With the timing chain, unless you have the original that came out to compare it to, you won't notice until you go to put the heads on and the chains aren't long enough. Putting the wrong tensioner in can cause issues since they are location specific on the engine due to differences in oil pressure at each location on the engine. This requires great situational awareness and everything has to be checked.
I can cite many issues we come across on a daily basis, even from those that I would consider top tier suppliers. We spend A LOT of time doing quality control on parts we don't even manufacture because of this.
What we need is more companies on-shoring manufacturing, not off-shoring, but that isn't going to happen as companies get squeezed on profit margins. Another issue are the **** and PE groups that are swallowing up these companies want to make their books look good so they can sell the company off and make a quick return on their investment, usually at the expense of quality.
Lastly there are low quality suppliers coming in to fill these voids and unsuspecting customers are the victims with this race to the bottom (usually driven purely by cost/price). The "Walmart Effect" is just one example of this.
08-19-2023, 04:50 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
There’s a shortage of parts? I wonder why.
“You need an E-GAS module for your [Mercedes-Benz] 500E—a part that it essentially needs to run? Good luck—I bought the last seven Mercedes had in stock, and they’re never going to replenish them ever again,” says Hodgman,
“You need an E-GAS module for your [Mercedes-Benz] 500E—a part that it essentially needs to run? Good luck—I bought the last seven Mercedes had in stock, and they’re never going to replenish them ever again,” says Hodgman,
08-20-2023, 01:33 PM
#3
Three Wheelin'
Interesting article but it does have an air of whining about it. This quote was telling:
"As both Raby and Hodgman tell it, the basic supply of new OEM-quality replacement parts—that is, parts manufactured by either the original equipment manufacturer or to the same quality—has all but dried up. If there are aftermarket or non-OE supplied parts available, they’re of sub-par quality and often fail right out of the box."
As someone who likes Saabs I've been dealing with this for years. Yes, sometimes you have to use aftermarket parts. Yes, some of them are garbage. However, many (if not most) of them are just fine and work for years without problems. It is what it is. When you try and keep an older car running you have to deal with this stuff, it comes with the turf. That's the reason there are businesses set up to refurbish obsolete ECMs, rebuild steering racks, and the like.
Rather than complaining (which solves nothing) why don't these guys set up relationships with non-OEM suppliers to ensure access to quality replacement parts? The purists will scream bloody murder with their typical drama, but sooner or later will realize an available aftermarket part is better than none.
"As both Raby and Hodgman tell it, the basic supply of new OEM-quality replacement parts—that is, parts manufactured by either the original equipment manufacturer or to the same quality—has all but dried up. If there are aftermarket or non-OE supplied parts available, they’re of sub-par quality and often fail right out of the box."
As someone who likes Saabs I've been dealing with this for years. Yes, sometimes you have to use aftermarket parts. Yes, some of them are garbage. However, many (if not most) of them are just fine and work for years without problems. It is what it is. When you try and keep an older car running you have to deal with this stuff, it comes with the turf. That's the reason there are businesses set up to refurbish obsolete ECMs, rebuild steering racks, and the like.
Rather than complaining (which solves nothing) why don't these guys set up relationships with non-OEM suppliers to ensure access to quality replacement parts? The purists will scream bloody murder with their typical drama, but sooner or later will realize an available aftermarket part is better than none.
08-20-2023, 02:21 PM
#4
Three Wheelin'
Following up with an observation that Raby uses aftermarket parts all the time, examples include LNE Nickies, JB pistons, Carrillo rods, and ARP bolts. He does this even when factory parts are available and none of us complain about that. So it's not that he has a problem with aftermarket parts in general, but with parts where he doesn't have a relationship with a trusted supplier. The solution is to build that relationship. The parts shortage is being driven by geo-political issues way outside of our control and it isn't going away. Businesses have to adapt.
Last edited by PV997; 08-20-2023 at 02:22 PM.
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frederickcook87 (09-04-2023)
08-20-2023, 07:56 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
COVID had a lot to do with some of these issues which are still present. Just to give one example, aluminum cost is still twice it was before COVID. Specialty steel alloys haven't come back to pre-COVID levels either.
I haven't read the article in question, but one of the issues that has been discussed ad nauseum in the SAE and AREA magazines is that the push for electrification is making the OEMs pivot and the planned obsolescence of the internal combustion engine is making supporting older models with ICE less profitable. That means in some cases the parts aren't going to be offered anymore or they are off-shored to China. This might not be as big an issue for the 996 and 997 right now, but this is a huge problem for older aircooled Porsche models and other older classic or performance models.
I'll just make a casual observation. There has been a lot of consolidation of OEM suppliers as well as aftermarket companies. Even Porsche is subbing more components to India and China to get costs down.
The Beru coils were once made in Germany, they are now made in China. We never had a problem with them but now we've had several literally melt down upon installation.
When Porsche switched to Siemens and cut Bosch off cold turkey, lower volume lines like injectors for the older aircooled Porsches went NLA. For a while there, we couldn't even get injectors for 996 and 997 models. We can now, but they aren't made in Germany - they are now from China.
The Mahle 993 secondary oil filter was made in Germany, but it's now made in China. Mahle has also discontinued certain aircooled Porsche cylinders as well. - not enough volume to make it worth while. If you buy a Porsche 914 Mahle piston and cylinder set, it's a repackaged set of Chinese AA P+C's.
Wix was purchased by Mann-Hummel, and some filters have been moved to Mexico or China.
Even parts still made in Germany can have issues. The Genuine Porsche AOS can be bad out of the box. From what Jake has told me, he tests them before using them.
I could go on and on.
There are other issues. Most recently we received timing chains and tensioners from Porsche that were mis-labelled. With the timing chain, unless you have the original that came out to compare it to, you won't notice until you go to put the heads on and the chains aren't long enough. Putting the wrong tensioner in can cause issues since they are location specific on the engine due to differences in oil pressure at each location on the engine. This requires great situational awareness and everything has to be checked.
I can cite many issues we come across on a daily basis, even from those that I would consider top tier suppliers. We spend A LOT of time doing quality control on parts we don't even manufacture because of this.
What we need is more companies on-shoring manufacturing, not off-shoring, but that isn't going to happen as companies get squeezed on profit margins. Another issue are the **** and PE groups that are swallowing up these companies want to make their books look good so they can sell the company off and make a quick return on their investment, usually at the expense of quality.
Lastly there are low quality suppliers coming in to fill these voids and unsuspecting customers are the victims with this race to the bottom (usually driven purely by cost/price). The "Walmart Effect" is just one example of this.
I haven't read the article in question, but one of the issues that has been discussed ad nauseum in the SAE and AREA magazines is that the push for electrification is making the OEMs pivot and the planned obsolescence of the internal combustion engine is making supporting older models with ICE less profitable. That means in some cases the parts aren't going to be offered anymore or they are off-shored to China. This might not be as big an issue for the 996 and 997 right now, but this is a huge problem for older aircooled Porsche models and other older classic or performance models.
I'll just make a casual observation. There has been a lot of consolidation of OEM suppliers as well as aftermarket companies. Even Porsche is subbing more components to India and China to get costs down.
The Beru coils were once made in Germany, they are now made in China. We never had a problem with them but now we've had several literally melt down upon installation.
When Porsche switched to Siemens and cut Bosch off cold turkey, lower volume lines like injectors for the older aircooled Porsches went NLA. For a while there, we couldn't even get injectors for 996 and 997 models. We can now, but they aren't made in Germany - they are now from China.
The Mahle 993 secondary oil filter was made in Germany, but it's now made in China. Mahle has also discontinued certain aircooled Porsche cylinders as well. - not enough volume to make it worth while. If you buy a Porsche 914 Mahle piston and cylinder set, it's a repackaged set of Chinese AA P+C's.
Wix was purchased by Mann-Hummel, and some filters have been moved to Mexico or China.
Even parts still made in Germany can have issues. The Genuine Porsche AOS can be bad out of the box. From what Jake has told me, he tests them before using them.
I could go on and on.
There are other issues. Most recently we received timing chains and tensioners from Porsche that were mis-labelled. With the timing chain, unless you have the original that came out to compare it to, you won't notice until you go to put the heads on and the chains aren't long enough. Putting the wrong tensioner in can cause issues since they are location specific on the engine due to differences in oil pressure at each location on the engine. This requires great situational awareness and everything has to be checked.
I can cite many issues we come across on a daily basis, even from those that I would consider top tier suppliers. We spend A LOT of time doing quality control on parts we don't even manufacture because of this.
What we need is more companies on-shoring manufacturing, not off-shoring, but that isn't going to happen as companies get squeezed on profit margins. Another issue are the **** and PE groups that are swallowing up these companies want to make their books look good so they can sell the company off and make a quick return on their investment, usually at the expense of quality.
Lastly there are low quality suppliers coming in to fill these voids and unsuspecting customers are the victims with this race to the bottom (usually driven purely by cost/price). The "Walmart Effect" is just one example of this.
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08-20-2023, 08:45 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
I understand both points of view, I started and ran an aftermarket parts company (I designed induction systems, reverse engineered the factory emissions/induction systems and we developed/introduced tuning for the platform) for about 12 years. I had vendors/manufacturers in CZ, Italy and the UK. I made it work and tried to keep the manufacturers and the customers happy. It was tough. I had about 30 suppliers back then. I sold in 7/2020, just prior to major supply disruptions. I felt cornered by a death in the family and an uncooperative exclusive manufacturer and developer so I sold, regrettably.
I still work on the OEM side, which is a disaster. Simple O-rings and gaskets and small plastic covers are constantly going in and out of stock, on top of the constant price adjustments.
As far as small business, I only do what I am passionate about, so the long hours did not seem like work, necessarily.
Porsche was always a love of mine since I was a child.
I still work on the OEM side, which is a disaster. Simple O-rings and gaskets and small plastic covers are constantly going in and out of stock, on top of the constant price adjustments.
As far as small business, I only do what I am passionate about, so the long hours did not seem like work, necessarily.
Porsche was always a love of mine since I was a child.
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frederickcook87 (09-04-2023)
08-20-2023, 09:25 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
COVID had a lot to do with some of these issues which are still present. Just to give one example, aluminum cost is still twice it was before COVID. Specialty steel alloys haven't come back to pre-COVID levels either.
I haven't read the article in question, but one of the issues that has been discussed ad nauseum in the SAE and AREA magazines is that the push for electrification is making the OEMs pivot and the planned obsolescence of the internal combustion engine is making supporting older models with ICE less profitable. That means in some cases the parts aren't going to be offered anymore or they are off-shored to China. This might not be as big an issue for the 996 and 997 right now, but this is a huge problem for older aircooled Porsche models and other older classic or performance models.
I'll just make a casual observation. There has been a lot of consolidation of OEM suppliers as well as aftermarket companies. Even Porsche is subbing more components to India and China to get costs down.
The Beru coils were once made in Germany, they are now made in China. We never had a problem with them but now we've had several literally melt down upon installation.
When Porsche switched to Siemens and cut Bosch off cold turkey, lower volume lines like injectors for the older aircooled Porsches went NLA. For a while there, we couldn't even get injectors for 996 and 997 models. We can now, but they aren't made in Germany - they are now from China.
The Mahle 993 secondary oil filter was made in Germany, but it's now made in China. Mahle has also discontinued certain aircooled Porsche cylinders as well. - not enough volume to make it worth while. If you buy a Porsche 914 Mahle piston and cylinder set, it's a repackaged set of Chinese AA P+C's.
Wix was purchased by Mann-Hummel, and some filters have been moved to Mexico or China.
Even parts still made in Germany can have issues. The Genuine Porsche AOS can be bad out of the box. From what Jake has told me, he tests them before using them.
I could go on and on.
There are other issues. Most recently we received timing chains and tensioners from Porsche that were mis-labelled. With the timing chain, unless you have the original that came out to compare it to, you won't notice until you go to put the heads on and the chains aren't long enough. Putting the wrong tensioner in can cause issues since they are location specific on the engine due to differences in oil pressure at each location on the engine. This requires great situational awareness and everything has to be checked.
I can cite many issues we come across on a daily basis, even from those that I would consider top tier suppliers. We spend A LOT of time doing quality control on parts we don't even manufacture because of this.
What we need is more companies on-shoring manufacturing, not off-shoring, but that isn't going to happen as companies get squeezed on profit margins. Another issue are the **** and PE groups that are swallowing up these companies want to make their books look good so they can sell the company off and make a quick return on their investment, usually at the expense of quality.
Lastly there are low quality suppliers coming in to fill these voids and unsuspecting customers are the victims with this race to the bottom (usually driven purely by cost/price). The "Walmart Effect" is just one example of this.
I haven't read the article in question, but one of the issues that has been discussed ad nauseum in the SAE and AREA magazines is that the push for electrification is making the OEMs pivot and the planned obsolescence of the internal combustion engine is making supporting older models with ICE less profitable. That means in some cases the parts aren't going to be offered anymore or they are off-shored to China. This might not be as big an issue for the 996 and 997 right now, but this is a huge problem for older aircooled Porsche models and other older classic or performance models.
I'll just make a casual observation. There has been a lot of consolidation of OEM suppliers as well as aftermarket companies. Even Porsche is subbing more components to India and China to get costs down.
The Beru coils were once made in Germany, they are now made in China. We never had a problem with them but now we've had several literally melt down upon installation.
When Porsche switched to Siemens and cut Bosch off cold turkey, lower volume lines like injectors for the older aircooled Porsches went NLA. For a while there, we couldn't even get injectors for 996 and 997 models. We can now, but they aren't made in Germany - they are now from China.
The Mahle 993 secondary oil filter was made in Germany, but it's now made in China. Mahle has also discontinued certain aircooled Porsche cylinders as well. - not enough volume to make it worth while. If you buy a Porsche 914 Mahle piston and cylinder set, it's a repackaged set of Chinese AA P+C's.
Wix was purchased by Mann-Hummel, and some filters have been moved to Mexico or China.
Even parts still made in Germany can have issues. The Genuine Porsche AOS can be bad out of the box. From what Jake has told me, he tests them before using them.
I could go on and on.
There are other issues. Most recently we received timing chains and tensioners from Porsche that were mis-labelled. With the timing chain, unless you have the original that came out to compare it to, you won't notice until you go to put the heads on and the chains aren't long enough. Putting the wrong tensioner in can cause issues since they are location specific on the engine due to differences in oil pressure at each location on the engine. This requires great situational awareness and everything has to be checked.
I can cite many issues we come across on a daily basis, even from those that I would consider top tier suppliers. We spend A LOT of time doing quality control on parts we don't even manufacture because of this.
What we need is more companies on-shoring manufacturing, not off-shoring, but that isn't going to happen as companies get squeezed on profit margins. Another issue are the **** and PE groups that are swallowing up these companies want to make their books look good so they can sell the company off and make a quick return on their investment, usually at the expense of quality.
Lastly there are low quality suppliers coming in to fill these voids and unsuspecting customers are the victims with this race to the bottom (usually driven purely by cost/price). The "Walmart Effect" is just one example of this.
Bottom line is that this problem is outside of our control and it isn't going away. Covid shutdowns, money printing, offshoring, Russian sanctions, the Nordstream pipeline being blown up, top-down environmental mandates, and a host of other issues have disrupted supply chains world-wide, Europe in particular. Businesses that depend on quality parts have to develop new relationships with trusted "aftermarket" suppliers and/or implement their own quality control screening. Not doing so puts their own reputation at risk, or even worse, they can't build product. This is the new normal unfortunately.
There are high quality aftermarket suppliers out there, they aren't all inferior knock-offs. I recently bought some Depo headlights for my Saab 9-3 and was blown away at the quality. Also, part screening should be implemented based on system criticality. A part that could cause an inconvenient failure (e.g. a headlight washer) doesn't need the same screening as one that could cause a catastrophic failure (e.g. a crank bearing). Businesses need to triage.
As always Charles, thanks for sharing your knowledge.
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09-03-2023, 02:50 PM
#8
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
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Thread Starter
Update: I was at a cars and coffee this morning chatting it up with some Porsche owners. All complained of OEM parts being no longer available and Porsche-labeled parts having less quality. A few said the following, with LONG stories of course:
1 - Porsche clamped down on OEM suppliers and said "no more white-label selling" ("can't buy aftermarket Sachs clutches anymore")
2 - Shifted to fewer suppliers and those are moving to Chinese makers (same brands such as Bosch, just now made in China)
3 - Quality of Porsche-labeled parts have fallen, particularly for older cars (so said a 928 owner who had a ton of anit-Porsche quality stories) - again this is about newly supplied parts from Porsche
4 - Czech parts makers are now attempting to fill the aftermarket void by making super-high quality parts. One guy I talked to had a Czech girlfriend who noted this was a goal of makers there.
I wish I remembered who the maker in the Czech Republic makes great control arms now.... anyone know who they are?
Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)
1 - Porsche clamped down on OEM suppliers and said "no more white-label selling" ("can't buy aftermarket Sachs clutches anymore")
2 - Shifted to fewer suppliers and those are moving to Chinese makers (same brands such as Bosch, just now made in China)
3 - Quality of Porsche-labeled parts have fallen, particularly for older cars (so said a 928 owner who had a ton of anit-Porsche quality stories) - again this is about newly supplied parts from Porsche
4 - Czech parts makers are now attempting to fill the aftermarket void by making super-high quality parts. One guy I talked to had a Czech girlfriend who noted this was a goal of makers there.
I wish I remembered who the maker in the Czech Republic makes great control arms now.... anyone know who they are?
Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)
Last edited by Bruce In Philly; 09-03-2023 at 03:11 PM.
09-03-2023, 03:21 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
Update: I was at a cars and coffee this morning chatting it up with some Porsche owners. All complained of OEM parts being no longer available. A few said the following, with LONG stories of course:
1 - Porsche clamped down on OEM suppliers and said "no more white-label selling" ("can't buy aftermarket Sachs clutches anymore")
2 - Shifted to fewer suppliers and those are moving to Chinese makers (same brands such as Bosch, just now made in China)
3 - Quality of Porsche-labeled parts have fallen, particularly for older cars (so said a 928 owner who had a ton of anit-Porsche quality stories) - again this is about newly supplied parts from Porsche
4 - Czech parts makers are now attempting to fill the aftermarket void by making super-high quality parts. One guy I talked to had a Czech girlfriend who noted this was a goal of makers there.
I wish I remembered who the maker in the Czech Republic makes great control arms now.... anyone know who they are?
Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)
1 - Porsche clamped down on OEM suppliers and said "no more white-label selling" ("can't buy aftermarket Sachs clutches anymore")
2 - Shifted to fewer suppliers and those are moving to Chinese makers (same brands such as Bosch, just now made in China)
3 - Quality of Porsche-labeled parts have fallen, particularly for older cars (so said a 928 owner who had a ton of anit-Porsche quality stories) - again this is about newly supplied parts from Porsche
4 - Czech parts makers are now attempting to fill the aftermarket void by making super-high quality parts. One guy I talked to had a Czech girlfriend who noted this was a goal of makers there.
I wish I remembered who the maker in the Czech Republic makes great control arms now.... anyone know who they are?
Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)
Control Arms:
ZF - Parent of TRW (https://www.zf.com/site/locations/en...html#undefined)
09-04-2023, 09:07 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
EVERYTHING is a bear to get, be it rear window glass, headlight housings, etc. God, I love the car but the scarcity of parts is really making me wonder what my next move should be. I am not living on 17 Mile Drive in Pebble...my passion is my passion, there's not a trust fund to support my "habits."
Alas...
09-06-2023, 10:09 AM
#11
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
From the Car Wizard....
Dang, that Hoovie is making many famous... and I hope, wealthy.
Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)
Dang, that Hoovie is making many famous... and I hope, wealthy.
Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)
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Sporty (09-07-2023)
09-07-2023, 01:16 PM
#12
Great video Bruce. Makes me feel better and reinforces what my Indy just told me with regard to him ordering a $1100 brand new Bosch alternator vs a remanufactured one which would've been $600 cheaper from various on- liners despite their "lifetime replacement" aspect. These could turn into a labor charge and frustration nightmare offsetting any savings; I'm surprised the guy in the video didn't mention that aspect in terms of his time and effort assuming $100-200 an hour labor rates.
09-07-2023, 04:19 PM
#13
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Great video Bruce. Makes me feel better and reinforces what my Indy just told me with regard to him ordering a $1100 brand new Bosch alternator vs a remanufactured one which would've been $600 cheaper from various on- liners despite their "lifetime replacement" aspect. These could turn into a labor charge and frustration nightmare offsetting any savings; I'm surprised the guy in the video didn't mention that aspect in terms of his time and effort assuming $100-200 an hour labor rates.
Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)
09-07-2023, 05:12 PM
#14
"Where was the Bosch part made?"
Who knows at this point - just assuming that being it is a new BOSCH unit, quality control is tighter, etc. Possibly China, but there are different levels of quality coming from there as I understand. Anyway, if something goes wrong, its on his dime to replace, labor and all.
I was already asking a lot of questions and he said that after 27 years, his experience has been blah, blah blah. Although he was patient with me, I didn't want to push him over the edge as he has been pretty good , knows his Porsches, is very geo convenient and 99% of his reviews are 5 star (although I am still guarded and suspicious due to being jaded as a result of some unscrupulous mechanics / douche bags I dealt with in the past )
I know , I know , wrench it myself - easier said than done at this point in life and my time is worth $1,000 an hour (or so I tell my wife ...)
Who knows at this point - just assuming that being it is a new BOSCH unit, quality control is tighter, etc. Possibly China, but there are different levels of quality coming from there as I understand. Anyway, if something goes wrong, its on his dime to replace, labor and all.
I was already asking a lot of questions and he said that after 27 years, his experience has been blah, blah blah. Although he was patient with me, I didn't want to push him over the edge as he has been pretty good , knows his Porsches, is very geo convenient and 99% of his reviews are 5 star (although I am still guarded and suspicious due to being jaded as a result of some unscrupulous mechanics / douche bags I dealt with in the past )
I know , I know , wrench it myself - easier said than done at this point in life and my time is worth $1,000 an hour (or so I tell my wife ...)
09-08-2023, 10:42 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
I can empathize with everything in that video. I work service in the commercial HVAC industry and getting functional parts and equipment is a constant challenge. By that I mean brand new parts and equipment. Everything made is a complete POS. Doesn't matter, top name manufacturers or not. Getting a large piece of equipment installed and working right at start up is 50/50 at best. There's almost always something wrong with it. QC is nonexistent.
It's almost impossible to make money on jobs. How do you cost in warranty work for defective equipment on a bid? Is it a couple hours labor or days? It's always a loser even if you go back after the manufacturer for reimbursement. They never pay your full costs and make you justify every penny when it's their screw up. Plus the look on a customers face when you tell them their brand new Air Conditioning equipment doesn't work and the fix is weeks or even months away, priceless. Trane, Carrier, York, doesn't matter. Same problems either one. Bad engineering, sloppy or negligent manufacturing or bad components at start up. Tells me it was never tested before it was shipped.
Same story for replacement parts. Bad out of the box or fails in a day or two. That means call backs, warranty calls and that service call made $0 or even negative dollars. The tech does everything right and we still lose.
It's a tough business these days
It's almost impossible to make money on jobs. How do you cost in warranty work for defective equipment on a bid? Is it a couple hours labor or days? It's always a loser even if you go back after the manufacturer for reimbursement. They never pay your full costs and make you justify every penny when it's their screw up. Plus the look on a customers face when you tell them their brand new Air Conditioning equipment doesn't work and the fix is weeks or even months away, priceless. Trane, Carrier, York, doesn't matter. Same problems either one. Bad engineering, sloppy or negligent manufacturing or bad components at start up. Tells me it was never tested before it was shipped.
Same story for replacement parts. Bad out of the box or fails in a day or two. That means call backs, warranty calls and that service call made $0 or even negative dollars. The tech does everything right and we still lose.
It's a tough business these days