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Digging into it a little more it's pretty clear there are two distinct platforms and all of these offerings are variations on these two versions.
Mr 12 Volt/Rennkit are distinctly different from the others in they offer a digital interface, wireless Mirrorlink, and a side camera option. The others (NM Automotive, Joyeauto, the el cheapo version) have an analog interface, only offer wired Mirrorlink (via USB), and only have front/back cameras. None of these things is that important to me, but from a pure scorecard approach, the Mr 12 Volt/Rennkit are superior. As I mentioned above, theoretically a digital interface should be better but in the real world I suspect there's little discernable difference.
Note that this is as best I can tell from publicly available info. 9XX has very limited info on their site but I suspect they are the same platform as NM Automotive/Joyeauto from what they state. I have to say that 9XX's limited public info, high price, and "no returns or refunds" policy are extremely off-putting. I would not buy from someone who won't tell me what's in it then refuse to let me return it if I'm unhappy.
Aside from those differences all of these units seem functionally equivalent, at least from a hardware perspective. They may have custom firmware that makes one unit less buggy than another. The units have a firmware upgrade provision (via SD card) though that only helps if firmware upgrades are offered.
So the big price differences seem to be mainly based on seller mark-ups presumably to cover improved instructions and customer service. People will have to judge for themselves how much this is worth to them.
I suspect the 9XX and NM Auto units are similar, 9XX has the advantage of him installing it, but at a cost.
The Joyeauto unit is not the same though from what I have seen on here from others.
I believe it needs the reverse camera wire and upon its release people were reporting that the backup camera function wasn’t even enabled. JoyEAuto did an update to fix that later but that ball drop on release would make me hesitant. They service many car makes with their kits, again would rather have something more unique for our platform for a few bucks more.
Would throw the JoyEAuto unit in the same bin as the Aliexpress unit.
NM Automotive does the exact same thing, they ask for your car’s configuration when ordering and they confirm it before shipping.
Its the only way they can configure the CanBus signals for transmission type for the reverse camera wire.
Does NM Auto need a VIN? To do what you state they need to know your transmission type, but why would they need to know your VIN like 9XX requires? Doesn't pass the smell test.
It seems pretty clear something needs to be changed to accommodate MT's in the 9x7.2's (note that this doesn't seem to be an issue on the 9x1's). I discuss this up in comment #8, it seems that the MT 9x7's don't have info on the Canbus that says it's in reverse. Makes sense when you think about it as with an MT the ECU doesn't really need to know this and there is no TCU.
The Joyeauto unit comments talk about changing a setting to switch the back-up camera control from Canbus to reverse light trigger for an MT. I suspect all Nick is doing is changing that setting so the buyer doesn't have to figure it out themselves.
I suspect the 9XX and NM Auto units are similar, 9XX has the advantage of him installing it, but at a cost.
The Joyeauto unit is not the same though from what I have seen on here from others.
I believe it needs the reverse camera wire and upon its release people were reporting that the backup camera function wasn’t even enabled. JoyEAuto did an update to fix that later but that ball drop on release would make me hesitant. They service many car makes with their kits, again would rather have something more unique for our platform for a few bucks more.
Would throw the JoyEAuto unit in the same bin as the Aliexpress unit.
9XX's $900 price is just for the unit and does not include installation. Unacceptable IMO.
All of these units come from the same factories in China, the hardware is all in the same bin as Aliexpress in that regard. The differences are in the firmware, instructions, and customer service. So what's that worth to people? Like I said, Nick found a niche and fixed these things which China is terrible at. Now that these units have been around a year and a half, the info is out there for people to do it themselves and don't need to pay an extra $300 or more.
Does NM Auto need a VIN? To do what you state they need to know your transmission type, but why would they need to know your VIN like 9XX requires? Doesn't pass the smell test.
It seems pretty clear something needs to be changed to accommodate MT's in the 9x7.2's (note that this doesn't seem to be an issue on the 9x1's). I discuss this up in comment #8, it seems that the MT 9x7's don't have info on the Canbus that says it's in reverse. Makes sense when you think about it as with an MT the ECU doesn't really need to know this and there is no TCU.
The Joyeauto unit comments talk about changing a setting to switch the back-up camera control from Canbus to reverse light trigger for an MT. I suspect all Nick is doing is changing that setting so the buyer doesn't have to figure it out themselves.
I wouldn’t personally trust JoyEAuto, I have seen a few issues over the years and like I said, they shipped their first few batches of units with no reverse camera trigger. But that’s just me.
As far as NM Auto asking for VIN, they don’t, they just ask for model and gearbox.
If I had to guess, 9XX is probably just taking the VIN and running VINAnalytics to confirm everything before programming or wiring.
9XX has a great reputation on here, doubt there is anything weird or nefarious.
As far as the NM Auto not using Canbus signaling for manuals, I have seen this posted on here from others that don’t have the system.
However in the install manual for NM Auto I received it explicitly states that it uses the Canbus signaling and from first hand experience, I know that no reverse wire was connected. Attached is the page in the install manual.
If you want to confirm further you could always email Nick @ NM.
Last edited by ATX_Native; 07-12-2023 at 01:34 PM.
I wouldn’t personally trust JoyEAuto, I have seen a few issues over the years and like I said, they shipped their first few batches of units with no reverse camera trigger. But that’s just me.
As far as NM Auto asking for VIN, they don’t, they just ask for model and gearbox.
If I had to guess, 9XX is probably just taking the VIN and running VINAnalytics to confirm everything before programming or wiring.
9XX has a great reputation on here, doubt there is anything weird or nefarious.
As far as the NM Auto not using Canbus signaling for manuals, I have seen this posted on here from others that don’t have the system.
However in the install manual for NM Auto I received it explicitly states that it uses the Canbus signaling and from first hand experience, I know that no reverse wire was connected. Attached is the page in the install manual.
If you want to confirm further you could always email Nick @ NM.
Thanks ATX_Native, your comments are making me think about this a bit more deeply. Is your car an MT? My hypothesis is that the Canbus control works fine on AT's but is only an issue on MT 9x7s. On these cars you need to use the trigger for the back-up camera. All it takes is one MT owner where the Canbus control works fine to blow up my conclusion though.
I don't think 9XX is up to anything nefarious beyond selling what is rightfully a $400 unit for $900. Their website makes statements like "accept no imitations" but has no details on the specs or photos of the hardware (beyond one picture showing the Carplay box in packaging so you can't see it's connections). I'm a suspicious SOB and my conclusion is that they did this because people would see it's the exact same hardware as the cheap models. They do link to a short installation video and the circuit board in it looks exactly like the Joyeauto circuit board.
There's a faction of Porsche owners who happily take their cars to dealerships for $600 oil changes for "peace of mind" (despite rightfully being a $200 job). I suspect this is 9XX's target market. But again, I'd love to be proved wrong if someone can explain why it's worth the high cost.
Bought the nm automotive unit. Works great. No issues. Wired a reverse camera up and it is just plug and play in my manual transmission. Seller was very responsive. If I buy a Macan that doesn’t have CarPlay I will buy this unit again. No concerns.
I contemplated the 9XX unit but the price was a little too much at around $2000 to install with a backup camera if I recall correctly. Plus I don’t mind working on my car. This install is easy to do and if you can follow directions you will be fine.
Add me to the NM Automotive list; appreciate the OP's thorough research into all options; not sure they all existed when I installed my NM Automotive unit about 3yrs ago (DIY). If they did, I just didn't dig deep enough. Agree with comments about dated OEM screen resolution; otherwise, very happy with it. Waze on the big screen + reverse camera makes a 15yo car seem younger, tech-wise. Nick is very responsive to email. Good luck!
I was unaware that the 9XX unit didn’t include professional install, so yes, that’s crazy and not worth it.
I thought that was his thing on all of his stuff like his steering wheel MF control unit, I must have been mistaken.
Looking at his site he just claims “professional install required”, but he does ship it. Weird.
Maybe people mind find the Satellite Radio add worth it, not me.
I have a manual and also do my own oil changes.
I also try to reduce the Porsche tax as well.
LOL, you blew up my hypothesis with a single photo! It's all good though, that's how knowledge advances.
So we know Joyeauto had (has??) issues with properly recognizing reverse on the Canbus on an MT. From the comments on the Mr 12 Volt threads it has the same issue. The el cheapo $235 version flat out says not to buy it if you have a MT with a 3.0 PCM (3.1 PCM is ok). So clearly there's some sort of issue.
Speculating here, but I bet NM automotive did their own proprietary firmware upgrade that fixed the issue long before the other suppliers. And that's one of the reasons Nick has such a good reputation.
I've got a PDK so I'm placing the order for the $235 version though it says it will take three weeks to get it (the proverbial slow boat from China). I'll post updates here with comments and findings.
Since there's no remote Carplay box it supplies a replacement case top-half with a notch that allows the cables to pass through to the board. Note the vertical slot at the top right after installing the replacement case.
However, the replacement case is missing the locking mechanisms in the factory case:
Perhaps 2 of the 4 is enough to hold it but it seems kind of cheesy. Probably better to cut a small notch in the factory case for the cables, it doesn't need to be as big as the one in the replacement case.
LOL, you blew up my hypothesis with a single photo! It's all good though, that's how knowledge advances.
So we know Joyeauto had (has??) issues with properly recognizing reverse on the Canbus on an MT. From the comments on the Mr 12 Volt threads it has the same issue. The el cheapo $235 version flat out says not to buy it if you have a MT with a 3.0 PCM (3.1 PCM is ok). So clearly there's some sort of issue.
Speculating here, but I bet NM automotive did their own proprietary firmware upgrade that fixed the issue long before the other suppliers. And that's one of the reasons Nick has such a good reputation.
I've got a PDK so I'm placing the order for the $235 version though it says it will take three weeks to get it (the proverbial slow boat from China). I'll post updates here with comments and findings.
When Anthony (9xx) installed mine a few years ago we worked until the morning hours to get the backup camera working. He had installed on MTs without a problem. Mine was his first PDK. We used his PIWIS to view the CANBUS. We talked directly with the engineers in China. We modified surface mount components on the PCB. In other words, Anthony has skills and an excellent working relationship with the factory and their people. He's also a perfectionist.
We didn't get it working that night. Or the next day. So we put his Porsche up on my lift to change his oil. He went on to his next stop with the promise of finding a solution. He was true to his word. A new box arrived a few weeks later. All good.
I wrote a full installation manual for Anthony, so that is available. Anthony has also done some wonderful videos.
Anthony is also an enthusiast working on many Porsche specific products. Look at his website. Explore the site he has created.
He's based in Georgia so it's easy to contact him.
On another note, I installed the NM unit for a friend a few months after my 9xx was installed. The instructions were great. A cable was bad (my fault?). Replacement was easy but required a second session a couple weeks later. The units were close to identical but the firmware was subtlety different.
When Anthony (9xx) installed mine a few years ago we worked until the morning hours to get the backup camera working. He had installed on MTs without a problem. Mine was his first PDK. We used his PIWIS to view the CANBUS. We talked directly with the engineers in China. We modified surface mount components on the PCB. In other words, Anthony has skills and an excellent working relationship with the factory and their people. He's also a perfectionist.
We didn't get it working that night. Or the next day. So we put his Porsche up on my lift to change his oil. He went on to his next stop with the promise of finding a solution. He was true to his word. A new box arrived a few weeks later. All good.
I wrote a full installation manual for Anthony, so that is available. Anthony has also done some wonderful videos.
Anthony is also an enthusiast working on many Porsche specific products. Look at his website. Explore the site he has created.
He's based in Georgia so it's easy to contact him.
On another note, I installed the NM unit for a friend a few months after my 9xx was installed. The instructions were great. A cable was bad (my fault?). Replacement was easy but required a second session a couple weeks later. The units were close to identical but the firmware was subtlety different.
Thanks for this Wayne, I figured there had to be more to the story. Anthony's prices are very high though, he should do a better job explaining why he's worth it (or lower his prices) as the website just looks like marketing hype now.
On your setup do the back-up camera guide lines curve when you turn the steering wheel?
Thanks for this Wayne, I figured there had to be more to the story. Anthony's prices are very high though, he should do a better job explaining why he's worth it (or lower his prices) as the website just looks like marketing hype now.
On your setup do the back-up camera guide lines curve when you turn the steering wheel?
Yes, they do. Anthony also sent me a front camera to play with. Of course, the front doesn't have lines.
The VIN defines MT or PDK. Our examination of the CANBUS indicated that the two versions have several differences. Our initial assessment created discrepancies. That required some further investigation. And software changes.
Looking at the confusion on the 997.1 PCCM regarding the back up camera I don't know if a solution has been found or not (I stopped tracking that thread when it became obvious members of our driving group wouldn't be going in that direction). That unit played nicely on the Cayennes, but not the 997.1s. It does point out the complexity on the CANBUS when doing these updates.
Yes, they do. Anthony also sent me a front camera to play with. Of course, the front doesn't have lines.
The VIN defines MT or PDK. Our examination of the CANBUS indicated that the two versions have several differences. Our initial assessment created discrepancies. That required some further investigation. And software changes.
Looking at the confusion on the 997.1 PCCM regarding the back up camera I don't know if a solution has been found or not (I stopped tracking that thread when it became obvious members of our driving group wouldn't be going in that direction). That unit played nicely on the Cayennes, but not the 997.1s. It does point out the complexity on the CANBUS when doing these updates.
Yes. And some of the cheaper Carplay units state that Canbus control will work if you have factory camera but won't work if you have an aftermarket camera (will need to use a reverse light trigger). That makes me wonder if recoding the car with a PIWIS to a factory camera could solve some of these issues. I have a PIWIS but most people don't so it's not a very good solution.
I get the distinct impression the Canbus data is different depending on MT vs. Auto, factory camera vs no factory camera, PCM 2.1 vs 3.0 vs 3.1, and 911 vs Cayenne. So the unit needs to be smart enough to sniff out the right Canbus data depending on the configuration. These direct from China units aren't very good at it whereas on the repackaged units (9XX, NM Auto) you tell them the configuration and they code the correct setting into the unit.
07-12-2023, 01:08 PM
