Check for bore scoring with a good PPI - 997.2 is not immune they're now starting to pile up in the engine builder shops as age is catching up with them.

 

Must be hundreds of threads here addressing the importance of maint. records so it means something to a lot of people. I sold my -09 C4S privately to someone in Texas. He insisted on me having complete maint. records since I bought the car or he wouldn't make the trip here even after agreeing on the price. I told him I had everything, he came here, looked at my maint. records and bought the car.

 

They are definitely important to people here but I don't think we are a representative sample of 911 owners. Just the fact that we chat endlessly about our cars with strangers on the internet about mostly trivialities shows we are an odd bunch.

There are no doubt plenty of well-maintained 911's out there with "normal" owners who don't save every receipt. Plus even if there are records they are often lost if a car went through a dealer at some point. Limiting oneself to only buying a car with meticulous records shrinks the buying pool and almost certainly assures one will pay top dollar. Meticulous records says more about the owner's OCD tendencies than it does about the car IMO. These cars need regular service no doubt but they don't need to be pampered.

 

Look ideally you have records be ause it can save you thousands in preventative maintenance. In the end, inspecting these cars is not difficult, get under it, look for rust, do a ppi. The big ticket items are scored engines and pdk so do a bore scope and bank on a pdk service unless you see a receipt for a recent service. It all boils down to price.

 

Yes! This times 100000X. Keep in mind when these were new, MANY were nothing but a toy that was bought (leased), and not by a hyper-vigilant enthusiast. Plus, it was all warranty/dealer services anyway, so those folks just tossed those docs out at their next gas fill up. Perspective is good here.

If there's a blank for the first few years of service, i don't think that's a problem at all...more like a normal occurrence for most cars. Once the age and miles set in, then yeah, you want more evidence that the the big stuff has been addressed. Or, bake those costs into your offer and just know that you'll need to do them if that's important to you. I bought all of mine including my current 997.2 as low mile CPO cars. No records at all, but I just followed the recommended intervals and started that chain on my own. In fact, my latest .2 coupe had multiple owners before and I bought from a distance, sight unseen (still CPO). The dealer's delivery prep when it showed up gave me pause so I just did the next major service that was due for peace of mind and to "reset the clock", so to speak.

At this point in the lifecycle of a 997, we need to stop thinking of them as relatively-recent used cars and more like older cars that have needs.

 

If your buying private party and the person does not have anything in terms of records I would leave it to you to draw a conclusion with an experienced mechanic, if they only drove it a thousand miles or something that is one thing, but if it's traveled a lot more and your going on his word alone that is on you as a buyer. Even replacing tires or brakes can be pretty expensive for a new owner.

 

The number of owners is a potentially bigger issue than the records. Have seen maintenance binders but actual treatment was mediocre (just a tendency towards organization, not rational or thoughtful care).

My car (for example) had (timely) dealer service under my ownership for several years. No DIY living in Manhattan. Are records available of that? Sure, I think so. I have a binder. I think. But priorities mean it isn’t top of mind today.

More recently I have done more of the basics myself due to availability of better space and equipment. Meticulous when doing oil on my four sports cars (and two daily drivers)? Absolutely. Do I keep receipts for each item for each car? Guess so… I’d have to dig through email records. That would be it…

Heated garage, never driven in salt (none of my sports cars were/are), always refresh tires and cared for like a true enthusiast.

Records? The action of me digging it up changes nothing. Of course for any buyer they wouldn’t know any of this except through context. The multiple, long-term ownership, condition of the cars (on any inspection) and seeing things that cost $ (fresh tires) not skimped on.

It is why when I buy it is a) the seller and b) inspection (including general visible condition) and c) context (length of ownership, where it was kept if private seller). Maintenance records from my experience mean little in their existence… or course adds to the context but that’s it.

 

How much trouble is it to put it in a folder?? If someone told me that I'd laugh

 

id tell you to kick rocks

 

Pretty much what I thought. How much harder it is to put a receipt in a folder or an envelope than in a trash can? Never know when and who you'll be selling to and what they want to see so small effort to have everything saved rather than trashing it. Not like it's taking up a lot of space either.

 

I was in same situation when I bought mine, it was 120 000 miles, 3 previous owners and very few records, I tried my luck since it wasn't bothering me that much (I knew the car wouldn't be perfect tho).

The most important thing (if you're able to get info about it) is to know if previous owner respected oil change intervals

Here are few things to look at on these cars :

- The HPFP, ask him if the part was replaced under his ownership or if he knows about it

- The PDK is a very strong transmission (never had an issue with mine and the car is now at 161 000 miles), however the oil pan design is **** and it can sometimes leak from the gasket, very easy to look at if you're able to lift the car and remove the underbody panels

- Ask if PDK service interrval were respected

- Same for the rear main seal, I don't know what can trigger that, but it eventually went bad on my car, I blame it on the age/mileage, I was lucky enough to notice and fix it quickly (engine oil was getting into the PDK..)

- Swaybar droplinks, especially on rear, if they are shot you'll hear a "clunk" and/or creak noise while going on bumps and other road deformations

- If you hear an irregular knock noise coming from the top of the engine bay when the car is idling, it's the throttle body and you'll have to replace it

- May sound dumb but try to check the A/C system, if it hasn't been used or out of gas for an extended period of time, the compressor pulley bearing will eventually fail and you'll have to buy a whole new compressor

- If the previous owner ever had a "Visit workshop" CEL, try to scan codes, if you have codes about intake air temps or pressure, the MAF sensor is shot and you'll have to replace it (critical since a bad MAF can trigger PDK emergency mode)

- Vacuum pump can RUST, look at the part on the car, if it's bad rusty looking, you'll have to replace it (critical since it can fail without warning and you'll have no brakes lol)

- If you hear a tick noise in at the top of the engine bay (driver side) after a cold start at idling, it's your AOS, replacement suggested

These are the main concerns on .2s, I probably forgot other few little things but nothing too big to worry about

 

Well, multiply by four or five cars and then consider online orders and printing the receipts…

Then consider all the boneheads out there that don’t do stuff correctly or take it upon themselves to do work they aren’t qualified to do (optional or necessary work). Where do you end up in terms of real information?

I think it’s one highly imperfect datapoint. What could be more useful is seeing whether the seller cheaps out on things. Leaving old or worn tires on. Choosing cheaper priced alternatives. Using cheaper <anything> on cars like these could indicate they scrimped. Not necessarily bad but something I would personally avoid when I look for the best examples or cars for long-term ownership.

 

And this is why you hear so many people say “buy the seller”. But that doesn’t work too well when the car is at a dealer.

 

I hear you in that I have receipts and logs for things as silly as replacing interior light bulbs. It makes me happy and there's no harm in it so why not.

That being said, I recognize that it's not normal behavior in that most people don't do it. Further, if this level of persnickityness were to spread to the rest of my life it would quickly spiral out of control. If I was to demand of it others I'd likely end up divorced and friendless.

My point is that Rennlist is an echo chamber of like-minded individuals who are obsessed with their vehicles and do odd things. How many times do people get on here and boast about throwing away perfectly good parts and replacing them with new one for peace of mind? Normal people don't do that but wait until they break. I'm not condemning it but just pointing out it's not typical human behavior and to keep it in perspective as it does distort opinions and viewpoints around here. Normal people don't save every last receipt on things and that doesn't make them bad people or mean they abused their cars.

 

I hear people say that but it really is kind of silly when you think about it. Most sellers only owned the car for a fraction of it's life or should we limit our search to single owner vehicles? Or run background checks on previous owners? We are talking about fifteen year old cars here, not someone trading in a three year old lease. Do people "buy the seller" for anything else in life or look at the quality of the product? Generally they do not so what makes these cars the exception? I'm not asking these questions to be rude, but pointing out there are lots of things that become gospel around here without a lot of thought behind them.

The OP's original question was what to do about a car with no maintenance records. People have pointed out that they can be reconstructed in some measure by Carfax, but that a good PPI can pretty quickly distinguish between a car that was well maintained vs. one that wasn't. No maintenance records are the norm with virtually every other used car, and they are pretty common with these cars if they ever went through a dealer. If someone wants to limit their search to only cars with maintenance records they are certainly entitled to do so, but it will dramatically shrink their choices and ensure they pay top dollar.