I don't want to derail Ironman's thread so I won't comment beyond this, but you are missing the point. First off, there is no good evidence the stuff you mention will delay bore scoring that has already started, that's total conjecture. Once started, aluminum on aluminum galling cannot be stopped. It may help prevent it from starting in the first place, but we should all be doing frequent oil changes anyways (along with other sensible provisions like taking it easy until the oil is at temp). Plus comparing a rebuild that costs over half the car's value is not akin to diet and exercise (which are free and sensible), but more like a heart replacement. Who gets their heart regularly screened to see if they if they need a new one?

There is something about Porsche owners that compels them to go looking for trouble rather than just enjoying their purchase. I really don't get it.

 

We are all different... I for one, had two M96 engines explode. That will focus your attention on every tick, clunk, and drop of oil used.

Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)

 

I'm new to the 997.1 experience, a 2008 C4S, 22,000 miles (scoped with no scoring (on inspection via spark plugs, but no pictures, mechanic confirmed), compression 220 psi all 6 cylinders, a Northeast car) and admit I'm a bit concerned at some point I will face an engine rebuild. On one hand I feel there's fear mongering going on (I think vinWiki had a guy on U Tube that said never buy a 997.1 from the Northeast), on the other hand I will not idle the car, I will do frequent oil changes, use Liqui Moly oil 0-40, Driven injector defender, keep under 4,000 rpm until oil temp 200, do periodic oil analysis. Am I drinking the Kool-AId? It feels to me that this topic is like everything else out there in the web ether: accurate, inaccurate, made-up, true, false, fake, real, no-BS, BS, based on opinions, based on data. and each person is mostly on their own to figure it out. Peace and Love.

 

Not trying to be mean or argumentative, but you really need to do some research. The advancement of scoring can be slowed if you choose to "live with the problem", but definitely not eliminated beyond cylinder resleeving.

I get mine checked every year. This explains a lot about you. Your line of thinking is... "a person doesn't have high blood pressure that never checks his blood pressure."

I enjoy my cars and enjoy servicing them and watching the vitals, but I try to be more proactive than reactive. I believe that's the best course of action for Porsche ownership.

p.s. Diet and exercise is MORE of an investment, may not be as costly as an engine rebuild, but definitely NOT free and definitely NOT easy.

 

Let’s not let these arguments about whether or not some owners are “hypochondriacs” wrt their pcars run away with this thread.

Hey I get it, there is a group of owners that either don’t have the problem and/or don’t believe it exists. That’s ok. I hope you never cross paths with a bore scoring issue! Seriously it’s not something you wish on anyone.

There are also a few of us trying to have an informed discussion about an issue that we (by we I mean the subset of us that has verified either streaking or early stages of the bore scoring process) are trying to have a constructive conversation about what we can do to maximize the enjoyment we get out of our cars and to delay the point when we have to actually do a rebuild.

It’s hard to do if every thread is hijacked by someone who thinks this subset of owners is on some sort of jihad in favor of the guys who actually sell solutions to the problem (either to avoid and prolong the engine life or or who rebuild these engines). Most of us have a problem we are trying to address and learn from others experiences.

We have questions like:

• What can be done to delay the onset of piston slap once you discover streaking/early stages of scoring in one or more of your cylinders?
• How long/far can we drive our cars before a rebuild is required and before too much collateral damage is done?
• What are the best options for a rebuild if one is needed?

So I get it, some owners are afraid these discussions devalue their cars. Just look at Groov’s post above and ask yourself how expensive is are any of the air cooled cars (that had real issues) these days?

Some just don’t want to worry. That’s ok too, just skip over these posts. But please be cognizant that there are, in addition to those of us who are actually dealing with the issue, also owners who want to know how to prevent bore scoring. This is where the folks selling the solutions have really made a valuable contribution to the community. Yes they benefit from solving the problem, both things can be true.

I think we have a ways to go as a 997.1 community of owners. I really think there are enough of us either who have gone through this process or are going through this process who can contribute valuable information to the community. The biggest area of opportunity I see is in the development of methods and procedures that can prolong the time between when one discovers the issue and the engine has to be rebuilt. I would love to see us focus our efforts there.

I don’t know enough about car engines to fix my problem on my own. I wish I did. This is why I rely on the folks who are willing to share their knowledge and experiences in this forum. Without their help it would be very difficult to either just shut the car down and send it in for a rebuild or to pass it on to an unsuspecting new owner.

 

How to prevent or slow the progression of bore scoring in your Porsche | 3 of 4

 

True, but no question there is a paranoia about mechanical failures in the forum (all forums) that is irrational.

 

I have to agree. The 996 Forum went crazy over the IMS issue.
Many I'm sure had sleepless nights.

 

It is (Bore Score) something to be aware of, understand what to look for and how to slow / prevent it.

Should it be 50% of the threads, absolutely NOT. Believe it or not it kills the valuation of these cars and creates massive paranoia. The GENERAL demographic of Porsche owners seem to have a high level of obsessiveness (IE PTS, Option Codes, center caps pointing to the valve stem, I could go on).

Put me in that category, I am guilty of some of these obsessive traits. However when it comes to bore score, I take the necessary steps to slow/prevent it. Will I lose sleep over it, Nope. Do I want to discuss it for hours on end, Nope.

Drive it often, enjoy it for what it is. The Most Modern, Analog, 911.

(Just keep in mind many makes are afflicted with Bore Score, BMW/Mercedes/Subaru ect, we just seem to discuss it the most, at times to nauseum)

 

Final Episode - #4: How to Fix Bore Scoring in Your Porsche

 

Ironman---> Interesting to see in those video/photos of the Bore Score cylinders, as well as the majority of the photos of Bore Scoring I have seen, that the scoring seems to start just above where the top of cylinder sits when cylinder is in the down position. All 3 Bore Scope Inspections I had Indy perform where scoring was evident were done through Spark Plug holes and the scoring started just above top of piston.

Many say/insist that Bore Scope Inspection should be performed through bottom by Sump removal but my argument is that most all scoring is in generally seen just above the down position of top of cylinder and doing Bore Scope Inspection through Spark Plug holes is sufficient.
Not trying to start war just my observations.

 

Welcome to the jungle. Here is my number 6. It starts at the very bottom edge of the cylinder bore and finishes at the very top of the cylinders right below the rings. You can definitely see it through the spark plug holes.

 

Would be interested to know:

Year of your 997.1
Number of miles on it (when you discovered the problem)
Where (geographically) the car has been driven
Stick shift or or Tiptronic

Certainly very regrettable to see the problem with your car.

 

2006 Carrera S. 3.8, tiptronic. It's the wife's daily mobile.
Got it at 55K miles, it now has 126K miles
It lived its first 55k miles in Idaho, and the rest was in NorCal.Ii found black soots in the last couple years on the left tail pipes. I took the engine out for other service and scoped the car from the spark plug holes and confirmed C4 and C6 had bore scoring. That was May 2022.

I had hoped that i would last another couple years, but it only got another 6,000 miles and between the oil consumption and the ticking noise, it was time for a rebuild. Upon tear down, it was very obvious how serious the problem has become.

 

Were most of her trips short in duration? What was the OCI? But then maybe it was the first 55k