ManoTexas

Carreralicious your top is up! Rule is if not raining or snowing top is down. My lowest coming home from DFW airport was 17. That was long ago in Z3 with no heated seats, and didn’t sit down in it like 911 so wind hit my head more. Course had so much on I wouldn’t have felt heated seats. Driven 911 many times in 20’s and 30’s and much warmer than the old Z3 and Z4. People stare when it’s that cold, they don’t get it lol.

Carreralicious

Thanks! Exactly how I feel…”tomorrow is not promised”. I bought the car to enjoy for myself, not to keep it in pristine condition for the next guy or for resale value. I will not drive it in terrible weather conditions but cold weather alone will not stop me from enjoying a nice drive. This car is therapy for me on weekends. I also don’t think this car is meant to be a garage queen. It is not a rare Ferrari or something where you might feel guilty for putting miles on it. On the contrary, I am trying to put as many miles I can on it on weekends. I have another car as a daily driver, so can still only put about 5K miles a year on my 997. If the car ends up having a scored engine due to the cold weather, so be it. Not going to stop me from trying to fully enjoy my car. I am not going to be here forever.

Carreralicious

LOL. More power to ya! I can’t do that cause I can’t stand cold wind blowing on my head, and I hate getting sick. 😆

BillB128

Reminds me a lot of a quote from Warren Miller, " “If you don’t do it this year, you will be one year older when you do.” He was referencing heliskiing (which was and is $$$$) Here's a link for a little background if anyone is interested:
Top 10 Warren Miller Quotes - Gone App (thegoneapp.com)

I hope to enjoy my car well into my 60's, 70's and 80's ....Fingers crossed, but why put off enjoying it? That just seems crazy. We're certainly on the same page. Over and out. I think the horse is dead

russm535il

Good point I’ve never had it scoped, but it burns zero oil in between annual oil changes and I don’t see any smoke on start up so I believe I’m OK

fireman

Absolutely not. I had a perfect runner that had fairly severe bore scoring in one cylinder. Even had good oil analyses. No noise, no smoke, no soot. Based on the bore pictures I took. I was advised to stop driving it immediately.

See "a bore scoring duo"
Essentially 2 very similar 997, one with fairly obvious symptoms the other essentially symptomatic both with bore scoring.

I think the way to think about bore scoring is it's a failure of the piston skirt coating with bore scoring as a contributing symptom.
And the problem is you then have pieces of that coating in your oil system blocking oil passages and scratching bearing surfaces. Bad bad bad


If I was going to drive in cold temps. I would definitely get a block heater. I have one on a 1999 f350, and not only does it start more easily, it seems much happier--drives better etc after a cold weather start. And the heat and defrost work right away.

Sporty

"Absolutely not. I had a perfect runner that had fairly severe bore scoring in one cylinder. Even had good oil analyses. No noise, no smoke, no soot. Based on the bore pictures I took. I was advised to stop driving it immediately."

Interesting, do you mind sharing the bore scope pictures?

rtl5009

No way it was severely scored and didn’t consume oil.

groovzilla

Yeah that's what I thought. You can't say for sure there is no scoring until you have the Cylinders Scoped.
In past 3 years I've had total of 4 997's PPI'd & Bore Scope Inspected - 2 997S 3.8L cars and 2 997 C4 3.6L cars.
The 2 997S 3.8L cars had scoring and one of them had a cracked cylinder wall. Both of those cars ran fine with no noticeable odd noise from engine.
Here are some photos from those engines and the one photo showing the cracked cylinder:






1 of the 997C4 3.6L cars was my Cabriolet which had small amount of normal marks on cylinders but no noticeable scoring. I sold that car last year and bought my current 107K mile 2006 997C4.
My current C4 had excellent cylinder walls with no signs of scoring and my 50 year Porsche Indy Specialist shop was amazed the cylinder walls were so clean.

The 3.8L S engine is more prone to scoring but I always felt it important to Bore Scope Inspect ANY 997 I was wanting to buy.
Here are some of the photos from my current clean cylinder 2006 997C4 - Had 106K miles when the Bore Scope Inspection was performed and I've only put 1000 miles on my car since I purchased it. I don't drive it much.

**When getting the Bore Scope Inspection performed always have them provide you with 3 clear/readable photos of each cylinder***

BillB128

Groove, No disrespect meant, but how long have you owned your 06 c2 and what age group would you put yourself in (you can define it however you like, or not at all)?

groovzilla

Well I've owned 7 997's over past 8 years - 3 C4S, 2 997S & 2 997C4's.
I've probably owned 60 Porsche's since 1985 starting with many 356's.
I'm 63 years old
*I've owned my 2006 997C4 coupe since November 2021. It is one of my favorite.

I've always been a very good at finding Porsche's and also good at selling because I believe in being upfront/honest no BS.
My negative experiences with Bore Scope results on the 997's I wanted to buy has left me with strong opinion that buying a 997 these days without a Bore Scope Inspection is taking a huge risk.

TommyV44

Groove...how about the risk of driving so many silver 911s! LOL!

BillB128

Groove,
Thanks for the response, you're a kid at 63! I wish you many more years of Porsche enjoyment.
I've been on the boards since 2005/2006 when I bought my first Porsche which was a brand new
2007 987 Base Cayman. It was a hoot, but I eventually surrendered to the siren song of the 997,
and have loved every minute of my owner experience.
To me, owning these cars is all about the enjoyment, for some people that's hunting for their perfect
spec, cool by me. For other's it's detailing or modding the heck out of their rides, again, cool by me.
Others, still, love to get out and enjoy their cars no matter what the weather, to me that is super cool.
I am not quite that daring but like to think I'm pretty close. But in the end, I'm not going to tell someone how
to enjoy their 997...

OK, again, please don't take offense, because I can clearly see you're always trying to help a brother out,
but your "strong" opinions on bore scoring and are a little heavy handed at times, like when you ask someone
who's owned their car a while, "Have you had your car scoped" and when they reply no, you almost jump on
them (like above when you typed in Bold-Yeah, That's what I thought).To me that comes across as a
kind of in your face "Got Ya!/Caught You" tone, which I sure you don't intend.

To me, the only times you're going to do a scope is when you're buying or selling your ride. And
getting the scope is really up to the buyer, but I can see it being a big plus if seller provides a report.
However, a wary buyer might still question the seller's report and still get their own. You could also do
a scope when you're changing plugs or coil packs, but some might say to get the most definitive
report you have to go up through the bottom of the engine. Again, to each their own.

My opinion, and just my opinion, for someone who already has their 997, what are you going to do
if you're diagnosed with bore scoring? I know you can ship your motor to Jake for a rebuild
and he's the gold standard, but it's also big $$$, and a very long turn around time. You have to
figure out if repair is the way to go, or you hunt for a new example.

To me it's like going to your doctor and getting diagnosed with ALS (a truly terrible disease, the I hesitate to
make light of it). If the doc was completely straight with you, he'd probably tell you that even though you
feel fine now, your condition will slowly progress until it kills you. He can't tell you how long this process
will take or when you'd start to experience symptoms, or that maybe, just maybe, you'd stay stable for
years, what should you do? Maybe you park your *** in bed and hope for a cure to come along, or
you could go out and live your life, making sure to enjoy yourself on your terms and make the best of each
day to it's fullest. The key is do what makes you happy.... OK, I know, kind of corny, but that's how I feel
about. bore scoring. I know it's a perfect analogy, but it's my analogy

In not so short, I'm saying try and not to Harsh some other member's buzz

Again, no offense intended, I've seen some of your posts where things have gotten heated
and I'm not trying to go there.

Here's hoping you get to enjoy your 2006 (with Lobster Forks, your favorite) for many years to come.

Bill

fireman

Firstly, these were taken by me with a amazon camera. They are through the spark plug holes. I took them when I was doing a leak down test and had the plugs out. I'm sure the scoring would have been even more obvious done professionally from underneath. Im at work today, but I will take some pictures of the pistons tomorrow. Appart from cylinder 4, the obvious scoring, there are chunks of the skirt coating missing on some of the other pistons.
I also point out in image 006, the right hand valve has a divot in the valve seat. Its hard to see, but there. According to Len Hoffman the valve seats on these engines are common point of failure also. And Len has the heads now, so that will be fixed!
This is a 2008 C4S, 47xxx miles.

Here are the leak down numbers FYI
7 #3 6 #6
4 #2 5 #5
6 #1 6 #4

Carreralicious

I agree with your post Bill. I haven’t scoped my 997.1S either, and who knows…I may have scoring or not cause I’ve never had it checked, but doesn’t matter…I don’t get a feeling of pride by knowing if I have a car without one by being able to show everyone here nice pics of the cylinder walls, but instead, that I use it the way I want to and as much as I can until I’m done with it or it quits on me in which case I’ll get another car. I personally don’t want to buy a high mile car (over 90K miles) with proven no bore scoring. I’d rather have a low mileage car (under 30K when I buy it, which I did), and then use it until 90k-100k and then move onto the next car. I also don’t want to buy a base car just because it appears they score less. I want the S.

Heck, if it doesn’t make it to that mileage I was hoping for, then great, I get to enjoy a new vehicle. I’ve driven a 2011 Aston Martin V8 Vantage recently and thought it was friggen awesome, and their values have dropped to 997 prices so who knows what’s next if my 997 decides to one day fail me. I’m not looking to keep my car forever cause I’m not gonna be here forever.

Whatever happens, it’s all good. I bought my 07 991.1S cab when it was pretty cheap (low 40s) so even if I do have to do an engine do over, it wouldn’t be so bad given I’ve already owned it 4 yrs (which is what a new warranty would normally cover up to anyway). In fact, I’d wager that there’s a lot of owners out there driving and enjoying their 997s right now with scoring. Engines with scuffing or scoring will probably still run a long time anyway. Drive often and have fun with it, and stop worrying about if you have a little scuffing on your cylinder walls. That defeats the purpose of these cars. If you are that worried about it that much, then these cars aren’t for you cause even a clean engine can go bad one day. Remember, engines start dying from day 1…sorta like us. 😉

Here’s some pics of the car itself and my wife’s legs…IMHO much more exciting to look at than some cylinder walls. LOL.