Andy U

Hey Rennlist,
My profile shows my last visit was in 2013! This was about the time I sold my 996 C4S at the all time lowest dip in the market! Long short is I sold the "garage queen" since I rarely drove because I commuted on a motorcycle and did motorcycle trackdays regularly (since 2000). Fast forward to today, I have my dream bike but with Covid haven't commuted much for a few years and with older boys my wife is really nagging about the risks of tracking on a motorcycle. Knock wood...only crashed twice in 20 years and both times just slid and watched the scenery go by. My thought process in selling the C4S was that the only way to have fun in that car on the street was to be highly illegal or dangerous (I'm not a straight-line guy...love the twisties!). Wife would not let me track that car since we bought it new. I found I could have much more fun and stimulation on any motorcycle on the street than trying to push the p-car.

My strategy: The last rant of "feedback" from my wife really got me wondering if the bike tracking is worth it. My strategy: Dump the nearly brand new bike and apply toward a 997.2 manual ONLY with the intent to daily drive and track. If track is not or can't happen then I have to be honest with myself that there is probably a better spend of cash. BTW, part of the impetus is we recently bought a Cayenne (base) for the family and that mid-mounted tach and driving experience pulls me right back to my 911 days...and I mean HARD!

Need advice: Before I sell the bike and all that came with it, how do I assure I'm making a good choice? I recently found I can rent a Porsche from the local dealer for about $400 a day but I'm sure it will be something like a '22 992. I did test drive a '22/23 992 C2S the other day while the Cayenne was in for service and that was amazing but I think I'm with many on "too refined" and throttle response/sound with the turbos just didn't feel fantastic. And/or should I take a 2 day course at the Birmingham Porsche Track Experience, And/or show up at a PCA event at one of the local tracks and try to bum a ride (passenger) off of someone?

If I get a 997.2 knowing it is kind of an enthusiast's sweet spot and then turn around and track it and potentially mess with suspension like I do on all my bikes, then am I going to basically destroy the relatively premium value of that car? For that same reason, should I then just set my sights on maybe a 991.1 Manual and just have fun not worrying about depreciation? FWIW, I typically run a solid mid to low A group on bikes so I don't think I'll be babying the car around the track.

Thanks for anyone who survived this long rant. You guys are awesome on this forum...love learning from the collective experiences!

Andy

ATX_Native

My wife had a HD Iron 883 when we met.

She had been riding in SoCal before she moved to Texas and she brought it with her, but when she got to Texas she started riding less due to the extreme temps compared to SoCal.

I had no influence on her selling, but I couldn’t have been happier.

When I was in Match there was a lady that had shattered her pelvis while riding and was clear in her ad that the thing we all like to do was out of the question for a year or so. A Parts Dept rep at the local HD dealer told us that he can’t ride for a while, he spent 2 months in the hospital over a parking lot collision.

The margin of error is so small on a bike and instead of walking away from a minor accident you might never be the same.

For some reason that has never fit my risk profile, yet people probably think I am crazy for driving a 911 instead of a Chevy Tahoe.

Andy U

Funny you bring up the risk piece. In my last shout-down, she literally told me that my risk algorithm was totally messed up. I like to say that motorcycles are my ONLY vice which is supposed to make her happy but she doesn't necessarily see it that way.

voiceprint1

you might not find the thrills you want in a 997, but a 997/991 Turbo S will give you the rush you might want, it's docile around town, but has a jekyll and hyde personality, fantastic handling combined with over 500 hp on tap.

anthonyk

Man, that's rough. The track is way less risky than the streets. I sold my bike (and unfortunately had to stop teaching new riders) once my son came along and I got uncomfortable with the risk of daily street riding. I miss it, but the 997 helps make up for it a little. You should grab a 997.1 for the daily drive, and find a way to keep tracking the bike.

workhurts

I’d say track riding and street riding are a bit different but I sold my 2 bikes this summer after 25 years of riding.

On the street, distracted driving with people on their phones has gotten ridiculous. Had my fill, moved on. Still miss it every now and then and may street ride again if I ever move to a less congested area.

Not sure what to tell you about cars. They just don’t come close to a bike.

Andy U

Oh boy...someone please redirect or shutdown this thread! I'm not looking for more encouragement to keep tracking the bike. Deep-deep down I think you're right but the home front battles are weighing. I don't want this to become "bikes on track are more fun than cars on track" because I've seen "those" before and they become a mess!

If you're all thinking that based on my profile I'll never get that thrill from tracking a car, then let's get to that. If a 911 on track is fun and gets better with experience then I'm all ears and I just want your advice on how to get a good taste without just selling the bike and purchasing a car! Again, straight away acceleration and speed are not my goals...I can get that all day on the bike...I think street riding can be dangerous but I have many commute miles of experience (rain or shine) that helps keep me out of trouble. Ironically, my wife is totally fine with me commuting on the bike...it makes for very predictable commute durations (Califorinia lane splitting to the rescue!).

At the end of the day, I do actually feel tracking a bike is actually very safe especially in the upper levels where everyone theoretically knows what they are doing. My closest calls are in the intermediate groups or when someone is in advanced and they should not be. The x-factor is my wife's (valid to her) concerns.

Sorry guys...I don't want this to become an emotional self-help thread!

I'm looking for thoughts on how to best get a taste of the fun a 911 can be on the track!
Thanks,
Andy

Wayne Smith

Being honest, if you've achieved competence on the track with a bike, you will never not be somewhat bored sitting in an embryonic chamber behind a steering wheel. That's just how it is. Can you be challenged? Yes. Can you gauge improvement? Yes. In the upper levels can you play with the cars around you? A bit. But you will never have the two wheeled adrenaline rush.

That being said, you've got a family now. Some times you have to go with the flow (IMHO). And a car on the track is better than nothing.

Frankly, cars on tracks got boring to me and I have a lot more fun enjoying a spirited street drive with friends. Find a 911 group in your area. Ask to ride with one of them on their next outing. Check the vibe and see where it takes you.

Just my thoughts.

One last musing ... I've got a friend who is an ex UK super bike champ. He handles a race team these days. He tests tires for Michelin. He street drives some impressive cars. And he enjoys himself. Just another path.

dmpslc

Depreciation concern is for investments not hobbies, definitely not track hobbies. Buy any 911 you like and go to town!

Alternatively, if you want the rush of being on the edge but outright speed isn't all that important - driving a slow car at the limit (and sometimes that's under the speed limit) can be a lot of fun. And cheap so you can keep the motorcycle/

DesmoSD

When I attended my first motorcycle track day in 2002 with my R1, I was immediately hooked. I raced several seasons at Willow Springs had a host of 600's, twins and then Ducati's. I got into HPDE and even though it was fun, it wasn't as fun as two wheels. I used to live in the Bay Area had many fun memories at Thunderhill, Infineon and Laguna.

Now that I've been married for 6 yrs, my wife too grew not too fond of me riding on the streets. So I sold my 1098R and converted my 1199S to a full dedicated track bike but haven't done as much track days as I used to after marriage. I was at T Hill at least 4 times a month (my avatar is T1 at T Hill East). lol

I've taken the 997 to the track and it's fun but it's not as adrenaline pumping as getting that 5 mins call, zipping up your leathers, strapping on your helmet, then the gloves and then removing your tire warmers. Don't sell the bike, especially since you're near T Hill. Man, I miss that place!

Petza914

If you're considering 991s and 992s then maybe money is less of an object than getting the right weapon? If that's the case, there's only one car for you and it's the 997 GT3 that's track ready right from the factory with a Mezger engine that won't blow up at sustained high RPMs on the track. The turbo is another choice, but they're different. The turbo is a street car that can be used on the track. The GT3 is a track car that can be used on the street.

If you find one with PCCBs, unless Porsche is going to sponsor you, buy a steel rotor brake setup like the Girodisc ones along with the caliper stid kit from Rennline so you can easily swap pads and rotors for your track days. You'll destroy expensive PCCB brakes in short order tracking them, which is ironic, since that's where they're phenomenal. Keep those for the street use as they work great, make zero dust, and will last about forever on a street car.

For a manual car I think you'll be in the $125k range for either a turbo or GT3, maybe a bit higher. Coming from bikes, I think a PDK car will be a bit boring for you even though it will be faster around the track, but up to you whether you want a 2 pedal or 3 pedal car. If 2 pedal, then only PDK and not a Tiptronic, which eliminated all the 997.1 gen 2-pedal cars.

997.1 S 6 speeds will run you $45-$50k
997.2 S PDK cars $50-$55k
997.2 S 6 speeds (excluding the GTS) $55-$60k
997 Turbo 6 speed $100k
997 GT3 $125-$150k

workhurts

What’s the budget for trashing a GT3 on the track these days? Long gone are the days of the Main Street insurers covering this kind of stuff.

Petza914

If it's a Driver's Education track day and not a timed or racing event, many regular insurance policies will cover the car without special track insurance. You should read the fine print on your policy and send an email to your agent so they have to email you back with their answer and you have it documented.

Andy U

Some great, thought provoking responses...so many!

I'm realizing the way I posed my question is fundamentally wrong. Bikes tend come out on top for the adrenaline rush track or street...but that is probably fed by a bit of playing with the edge of crashing. Sliding tires on a car can be fun, sliding on a motorcycle does happen but the learning curve in that domain has some bad statistics!

So I think I need to seriously think about giving up the motorcycle on track adrenaline...too much at stake...take my winnings (no big crashes after over 20 years) and cash out. Maybe keep the bike for potential commute duty (I know that may sound crazy but see notes above on this topic) if I ever get a not-work-from-home-job. In other words, Porsche on Track does not equal Bike on Track so don't try to force the math.

Then completely separately, slowly explore whether 911 ownership is for me again. Anticipate driving it day to day and just enjoy the experience of such beautiful and legendary machine...and DON'T make it a garage queen! If I evolve to the track then do it but don't expect bike-like thrills. Thanks to you all, I think I realized the Porsche Track Experience in Birmingham should not be part of the decision. Maybe bumming a ride with a local Porsche Club (as Wayne suggested) is a path or maybe just rent the 911 for a day and see how that feels.

And for DesmoSD, I've got a 2022 Aprilia RSV4 (V4 Tuono, 848, CBR600RR before that). I will miss that rush of leathers-on, warmers-off and that roll through the paddock before hitting the first straight. And don't forget the allowance for side-by-side passing in turns. Man, what a rush!

Thanks all!

Petza914

Renting a current 911 won't tell you much about a 997 as they're very different cars and why many of us are still here and will continue to be as each new 911 moves further away from what we value in the 997 platform.