fourplates

The basic backstory here is that my 2005 C2 engine was destroyed while it was in the shop at a porsche dealership in CT. It's been in storage for about 5 yrs (lost my job in CT at the same time the engine blew up, moved to NYC for a while with nowhere to put it, now I'm back in Texas and miss the car). So, it needs to be rebuilt. I found a engine rebuilder who had done a lot of 996/997 rebuilds and contacted a number of references that had glowing reviews on the work done (a few of them it had been over a year since they got their cars back).

Rebuilt motor will be 3.8L (originally 3.6L) with all the relevant parts nickel plated. I have the option of using his most recently rebuilt motor (40k miles pre-rebuild) *or* using my motor (~65k miles). I doubt that miles matter since all wearable parts will be new, but the fact of the matter is that the block # on the other motor won't match my car. I'm not really planning on selling the 997 any time soon and don't care too much on resale value impact, but if it would make a big difference on insurance quotes for HDPE or other things I'm not thinking about, I'd like to know. I'm not in a huge rush to get the car back, so 60-90 days on the rebuild isn't a huge issue for me.

Any guidance here?

Thanks

BNB911

I don't think the 997's Numbers matching would be a negative, if the rebuild addressed the IMS and bore scoring. It would then be a positive. Depending on the Builder. IMO
Depending on the rebuild cost of $????.?? It may smarter to just find a donor engine. Or at least do the math on the value of the car plus the rebuild verse donor engine.
60-90 day turn around right now is pretty impressive. Many parts are very hard to find, and I heard LN Eng. Is months + out. Flat 6 years?
I guess my best advise would be, That if the deal is too good to be true, .............. you know the rest. Don't burn 20, 30 K To spend 40 -45 later on top of it.
Im not a "Builder" , but Pretty sure my numbers are in the ball park for the High end guys out there. And right now its not even about "How Much" its "How Long"

fourplates

Yeah the rebuild addresses IMS + bore scoring. It was quoted at $17,800. I'm OK with either option, just trying to sort out what the downsides are of using a different block. Your reasoning makes plenty of sense to me.

PJorgen

I have nothing to add regarding a rebuild but what’s the backstory? The engine was destroyed at a dealership? Did the dealership pay for a new engine? Then the car sat for five years? Come on, give us the details!

fourplates

I took my car in for an oil change... Despite knowing I should avoid dealerships for work outside of warranty, I was working 12 hour+ days in Westport and didn't really want to spend the extra 30 minutes driving to Danbury to Speed Sport Tuning (which is the best shop in the area and does the region's cup cars).

The mechanic called me and said my clutch was slipping (I drove it like i stole it every day and never noticed the clutch slip whatsoever -- but it had ~65k miles, so maybe?). I told him that I'd like the IMS replaced since they were dropping the transmission. I purchased an LN Engineering IMS solution for around $950 and dropped it off at the dealership. A few weeks pass and a manager at the dealership calls me and tells me "your engine won't turn, this is the car's fault, it would have happened anyway, and we won't repair it."

They charged me $4,500 for the new clutch and dumped my car back on me.

I towed the car to SST and had them perform a diagnosis. These are their notes:



SST quoted me approx $30k for a new motor + installation. Around that time, I lost my job in CT and moved into NYC.

I called a very experienced lawyer in NYC (a family friend) about a year later about the situation and he said the best I'd likely be able to do was get 5k in small claims court which I decided wasn't worth my time.

I really do love that 997 so much, so this whole situation was extremely painful and I just want to get it working again...

8KaboveMSL

Dealing with the start of bore scoring now on my 997.1. The only thing I would add is that if the donor engine has been rebuilt as well then it becomes something of a numbers game.

I don’t see any point in getting a donor that hasn’t been rebuilt as you could be dealing with the known m96 issues (even if you fix the IMS) down the road.

My 2 cents is if you’re going to go down this route, do it in way that having a second engine replacement becomes extremely unlikely. If the cylinders and sleeves are not replaced, you will still run the risk of bore scoring in the future.

Coolwnc

To add my two cents, I went thru a similar situation. Bought an '05 C2 but had no idea when the IMS bearing had been replaced. I decided to have the current bearing inspected and replaced if need be. Got the call to come to the shop after the transmission was removed. Good news was bearing had been replaced, bad news was they "gouged" the IMS shaft in the process. Shop owner suggested to replace shaft. If I am going to split block lets rebuild. After engine removed, #6 cylinder had scoring! I had cylinders Nickel Silcone plated. Got car back and now have about 6K miles on the engine and it is fantastic! I had a lot of sleepless nights during the process but all is good. Thank GOD for a relaxed wife......

4Driver4

I'll pile onto the "numbers don't matter" wagon. I wouldn't worry about keeping the engine with the car.
I'd go with the cheaper option rather than the quicker one. If the same price, may as well keep the original engine with the car.
I like the idea of going 3.8 on the rebuild. I did the same with my 2007 C4 and am very happy with it.

sburke91

I do suggest you ask some pointed questions of the engine builder as to what parts in the rebuilt engine are/will be new, vs. what are reused. I've heard directly from one of the best people in the M9X engine world that it is basically impossible to obtain some new parts right now, such as timing chains. Given your situation, moving forward is likely still the right path, but if I were in your shoes, I'd want to be clear on what will be new in the rebuild and what will be reused, or sourced from other used sources.

Sporty

Can you go 4.0 on a 3.6 or are they limited to 3.8? I would stick with original numbers matching engine if all else being equal.

groovzilla

My opinion on this has received mostly negative feedback in other similar threads but I think it would be the way I would go. A lot of the decision has to do with my experience with past aircooled 911's that needed engines and it was common to source a good used engine - Just like during my 356 days.

1st off I don't believe matching number engine really matters in the 997. It's not a collector car and several have replaced engines from factory due to engine failures like the 996.
The reality cost of a properly rebuilt engine from expert rebuilder is getting close to $25-$30K due to parts cost increases.
A quote of $17,000 for engine rebuild as OP mentioned is suspicious and I do not believe reality. I think the OP needs to find out if his engine rebuilder is up to current part costs.

Instead of an expensive rebuild I would opt to replace my engine with an excellent example used engine.
These used engines can be checked/inspected for scoring/etc and in my research/calling various used engine suppliers on occasion over the past couple years, many of these engines can be found as recent "pull out" engines on 997's that are totaled due to front end damage. Several of these engine suppliers have videos of the engines running before being pulled out of wrecked cars and many have mileage in the 50-70K range.
Asking prices for these used engines are in the $14-$15K range, some as low as $12-$13K which including shipping and warranty.
Another $2000 to $3000 for the engine installed by your Indy and your in the swap for $17-$18K max with original 997 engine.

4Driver4

"Suspicious" seems like a bit strong, as it tends to carry a nefarious connotation, but I see where you are going and I agree. I bet the $17k quote is based on past pricing experience and also does not account for scarcity.

In that context, I'd grab the rebuilt ready to go engine since OP would be buying it at yesterday's prices. Obviously he will want an itemized list of what the rebuilt entailed.

groovzilla

^^^^By "suspicious" I meant not having a clue/guessing at it. This could certainly be meant as "nefarious" since it is well known many mechanics make dirt cheap unrealistic quotes and then jack it up during the repair/rebuild when engine is in pieces on their shop floor..---> Which I would consider criminal.

fourplates

the quote is 17.8 for engine + 3k for r&r plus tax so a bit more than 22k all in. Everything is rebuilt and all relevant parts nickel plated. Bore scoring shouldn’t be an issue on the new motor.

appreciate all the feedback…. Good things to keep in mind. Thanks everyone

fourplates

builder advised against 4.0 on this motor though I don’t remember his reasoning