poorshe

Thought I had the clutch oil changed in October 2016 at 60k by dealer. Now that I am at 120k I checked my receipt from 2016 and discovered that the transmission fluid was changed and not the clutch oil. I hadn’t checked before as I assumed that the dealership knew what they were doing. They said they will change both changes for $1500. Seems high plus not sure want to do business with them. I called the other dealership and they have never heard of clutch oil, just transmission oil changes. They checked once and are perplexed but will keep checking. I am concerned since the clutch oil has never been changed. My independent will not do this work since doesn’t have PIWIS. Based on my experiences I am wondering if clutch oil really is supposed to be changed. Appreciate any comments

wjk_glynn

It should be replaced at 60K miles or 6 years, whichever comes first. And if you have a warranty (whether through Porsche or aftermarket), you'd definitely want to maintain compliance.

For reference, here's the maintenance schedule for North American 997.2 Carreras...

https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...87_2_997_2.pdf

That is truly bizarre and sorry to hear - dealers in my area are very aware of what it takes to service PDKs.

What part of the country are you in?

Thanks.

Karl.

Wayne Smith

There is general confusion about what is called what as well as what the proper fluids are. The clutch (or transmission) oil gets changed every 60K miles. The clutch oil filter which is a part of the non reusable oil pan gets changed every 120K miles. There is a pan kit that includes the oil and is quite inexpensive. Many dealers don't know about this or don't tell you and will charge you double.

Some 2009 models had a problem with the plug metallurgy and the pan could be damaged upon removal. These cars ended up with a new pan and filter at 60K miles.

The gear oil is for the differential (or transaxle if you prefer). This gets changed every 120K miles.

It doesn't sound like your dealer made any mistakes. As time has gone by the dealers and indies have gained experience. When I did my first change 6 years ago there was a lot of knowledge that wasn't known yet. There are some dealers who still don't know. Even some who advise against servicing because they realize they don't know. So study what you need and ask questions before moving forward. Choose your service agent carefully.

poorshe

Thanks for the explanation. Very confusing the way the service recommendations are written.

Prairiedawg

I would look at your old invoices if you still have them and determine the part numbers for which fluid was used. That should tell you immediately what was done.

PV997

Great idea on the part number.

For some reason Porsche changed the duration on the clutch fluid/transmission oil to 120k miles/12 years on the 991's to match the gear oil change frequency. In all the research I've done I cannot find any significant difference between the 997 and 991 PDK that would warrant the longer duration. I think Porsche just changed their mind and decided it didn't need to be changed that often. On my car at 60k miles the drained fluid looked brand new, same with other PDKs I've helped with.

https://www.pcarwise.com/wp-content/...e-schedule.pdf

CAVU

Do you know when the 997 PDK started having an oil cooler? 2010 sticks in my mind but i can not find a reference. That might have to do with the change in frequency if it was 2012.

Ironman88

Perhaps you may be referring to the 3rd (center-mounted) radiator? That was added as a standard equipment item for PDK cars as of 2011.

CAVU

No, not what I was remembering, but it may very well be it.

It seems that when the PDK was introduced in 2009 on the 911, it did not have an oil cooler (heat exchanger with the engine coolant cycle) but later on one was added. It is very similar in construction and execution as the engine oil cooler.


attributed to 2011 Turbo S.



attributed to 2019-2021 992

PV997

Pretty certain the PDK has always had an oil cooler on the clutch fluid side (the one you show in the pic) and it's mentioned in the 2008 ZF white paper on the transmission.

Porsche did added a pump/cooler to the gear oil side in 2013 with the 981/991. Now that you mention it, that could be why they lengthened the clutch fluid duration on the 991. If the gear oil is running cooler it's possible that it reduces the temp of the clutch fluid some too. It's a stretch but possible.

Anyways, I would still follow the 60k mile clutch fluid interval on the 997 to play it safe. I mentioned the longer duration on the 991 as I didn't want the OP to worry if his shop had replaced the wrong fluid and the clutch fluid had been in there much longer than 60k. It sure seems like it can last a lot longer without harm.

Edit: here's a pic of a 991 PDK where you can see both coolers. The one on the right is the clutch fluid and is also on the 997.2. The one on the left is for gear oil and is new in 2013 for the 991.

Wayne Smith

I agree with PV997 on the 60K mile interval. My oil looked brand new too. And the filter was shiny white. But I didn't do a UOA on it so who knows what the condition really was.

NOTE: My filter got changed at 60K because the dealer didn't know the pan couldn't be reused. Mistakes get made. I changed the pan again at 120K miles just to keep the service in sync. The indie I used for the second service knew about the pan kit and charged me less for pan and oil than the dealer charged me for either the pan or the oil.

AFAIK the oil cooler has always been there. That put more load on the cooling system so in 2011 Porsche added the third radiator on PDK cars to compensate.

CAVU

Thanks Wayne and PV997

Thanks for clearing that up for me!!!

sandwedge

Pretty sad. Given the short list of items the dealers are allowed to service on the PDK you'd think they would have a good idea of exactly what they can and can't do by now. It's been 13 years since the PDK introduction so if that's not enough time for a dealership to get up to speed on PDK specifics it would be a dealership I would probably steer clear of. If they still don't know, why haven't they reached out to PCNA for clarification?

Seems like this issue could be straightened out in 13 days or even 13 hours. Not 13 years and still not resolved by some dealers.

Wayne Smith

Beyond dealer knowledge, and something I failed to point out adequately in my post ...

A concern that has been mentioned on this Forum more than once is that PDK failures can occur shortly after a service. Why? That's for debate, but filling and calibration come to mind. Some dealers are nervous that they could expose themselves to liability if they perform the service.

As another point, this dealer fear is also true when it comes to performing software updates and the risk of bricking computers (a fear shared amongst other brands as well).