Short shifter question
01-09-2022 | 09:27 PM
#1
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From: Fuquay Varina NC
Short shifter question
Years back I had my shifter replaced with the 997.1 short shift kit. I thought that I bought the GT3 SSK but I was wrong. My question is I would like to replace it with the Numeric shifter and cables. In my situation would you replace it with the Numeric bundle or should I go with the Function-First Shift Right Solution and cable ends? I don’t know if this makes a difference however I just installed the Heavyknobs into my shift ****.
01-09-2022 | 09:47 PM
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I wrote about this in some length here, actually breaking down the benefits of combining different solutions like HeavyKnobs & Numeric:
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...l#post17462062
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...l#post17462062
I've now talked to a few folks about what to expect depending on the setup they currently have in their car and I thought I'd talk about this a bit:
If you've got a stock shifter setup (non GT3, not shorter, no billet parts), the result should be a much more direct engagement into gear with the additional mass added and an improved feel. Here I'd loosely say you'd get the largest improvement from stock, going from 30% > 70% on a scale of improvement. It's a very haptic improvement. The best example I can give is why certain premium products have a "heavier" feel to them. Consider a button's or door's feel in an S-Class vs. a Corolla - there's more dampening, resistance and the result is very considered. Heck, even soft close drawers in a kitchen are an extension of this concept.
If you've got an SSK, (B&M, GT3, eBay), you've already made a significant improvement (and an investment) into your shifter's feel. At that point you're probably going from 55% > 75% on a scale of improvement with Heavy *****. It might be slightly less noticeable than going from completely stock, but still very worthwhile.
If you're at the stage where you've got a Numeric shifter and/or cables, you've probably already invested close to a grand, if not more, into your setup that has tightened up all the shifting movement points for a very direct feel. At this stage you might be already at 80%, and HeavyKnobs Inserts will bring that to 90-95% or so. In my opinion, while 911s shifter can really feel sublime, I think it's impossible to get to 100% by the nature of our cars using shift cables rather than being directly connected to the transmission. There's a user on here that spent big bucks on improving their shifter with Numeric box and cables to get to an "S2000-like" feel (arguably, one of the golden standards), and while you can get extremely close to shifting perfection, the closer you want to get to 100%, the more expensive that goal becomes while the returns diminish.
My stance is that the best balance of getting a significant shifting improvement is to mate an all metal SSK (not GT3, fyi... which is plastic) with Heavy *****. That's what I concluded in swapping out many different setups, and the difference was truly night and day at about $300 all-in.
If you've got a stock shifter setup (non GT3, not shorter, no billet parts), the result should be a much more direct engagement into gear with the additional mass added and an improved feel. Here I'd loosely say you'd get the largest improvement from stock, going from 30% > 70% on a scale of improvement. It's a very haptic improvement. The best example I can give is why certain premium products have a "heavier" feel to them. Consider a button's or door's feel in an S-Class vs. a Corolla - there's more dampening, resistance and the result is very considered. Heck, even soft close drawers in a kitchen are an extension of this concept.
If you've got an SSK, (B&M, GT3, eBay), you've already made a significant improvement (and an investment) into your shifter's feel. At that point you're probably going from 55% > 75% on a scale of improvement with Heavy *****. It might be slightly less noticeable than going from completely stock, but still very worthwhile.
If you're at the stage where you've got a Numeric shifter and/or cables, you've probably already invested close to a grand, if not more, into your setup that has tightened up all the shifting movement points for a very direct feel. At this stage you might be already at 80%, and HeavyKnobs Inserts will bring that to 90-95% or so. In my opinion, while 911s shifter can really feel sublime, I think it's impossible to get to 100% by the nature of our cars using shift cables rather than being directly connected to the transmission. There's a user on here that spent big bucks on improving their shifter with Numeric box and cables to get to an "S2000-like" feel (arguably, one of the golden standards), and while you can get extremely close to shifting perfection, the closer you want to get to 100%, the more expensive that goal becomes while the returns diminish.
My stance is that the best balance of getting a significant shifting improvement is to mate an all metal SSK (not GT3, fyi... which is plastic) with Heavy *****. That's what I concluded in swapping out many different setups, and the difference was truly night and day at about $300 all-in.
01-10-2022 | 10:42 AM
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Years back I had my shifter replaced with the 997.1 short shift kit. I thought that I bought the GT3 SSK but I was wrong. My question is I would like to replace it with the Numeric shifter and cables. In my situation would you replace it with the Numeric bundle or should I go with the Function-First Shift Right Solution and cable ends? I don’t know if this makes a difference however I just installed the Heavyknobs into my shift ****.
- Ball bearings within aluminum housing replace the plastic/rubber shifter bushings to eliminate fore/aft and side/side flex and "free play" in the shifter mechanism.
- Aluminum yoke mounted on ball bearings eliminates remaining lateral play in the shifter.
- Aluminum/Delrin cable ends add a definitive feel by replacing the OEM rubber ends -- those factory rubber ends are where the sponginess and "what gear am I in?" and "did I fully engage that gear" feeling originate from, so it's important to address.
These are the solutions I crafted, because beyond that, you're really talking about diminishing returns in terms of shifter feel and precision.
Plus, I like retaining a somewhat smooth shifter feel with no notchiness. And it keeps NVH to a stock level.
On my own 997.1 C2S (both daily and track duty!), I use the 997 factory short "sport" shifter with the SHIFT-RIGHT Solution, along with the upgraded Shifter Cable Ends.
I also use the Classic Shift **** (Silver Aluminum with Black 6spd pattern), which I raise slightly above stock height for improved ergonomics and to increase the shifter throw just a tad -- personal preference.
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tegraphile (01-14-2022)
01-10-2022 | 02:04 PM
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From: Bend OR
If you are OK with the financial cost, I recommend going all the way and getting a Numeric shifter assembly. There is no substitute. Period. It's debatable how much value you will get out of their shifter cables. I think you will get 90%+ of the shifter benefits with just their shifter, but if you can afford the cables and time to install, go for the full meal deal. The FF or similar solution of replacing the OE plastic bushings and parts with metal equivalents is good bang for your buck and much better than stock, but doesn't compare to the precision of the Numeric. There is NO play in any axis with the Numeric whereas there is very slight play side-to-side with FF solution, at least in my experience.
I have the FF Shift Right kit (no shifter cable ends $295) paired with an eBay SSK ($44) and Raceseng weighted shift **** ($300) and it works very well. Total cost was ~$650. If you forego a shift **** upgrade, you are all-in for about $340. If I had to do it all over again, I would have just bought the Numeric and called it a day. I had the Numeric shifter and cables in a 997.2 GT3 and it was very precise, but also required a lot of effort to shift. I could live with it but something to consider if you use your car as a DD. Some of that was due to the cables, but the GT3 transmission is much different than a Carrera tranny and feels a lot tighter and precise. You basically can't replicate the GT3 shifting experience because the GT3 tranny is a big part. I also owned a 997.1 Carrera S and installed the FF cable ends and the difference in feel was not as noticeable. It was more for peace of mind than anything, IMO.
I have the FF Shift Right kit (no shifter cable ends $295) paired with an eBay SSK ($44) and Raceseng weighted shift **** ($300) and it works very well. Total cost was ~$650. If you forego a shift **** upgrade, you are all-in for about $340. If I had to do it all over again, I would have just bought the Numeric and called it a day. I had the Numeric shifter and cables in a 997.2 GT3 and it was very precise, but also required a lot of effort to shift. I could live with it but something to consider if you use your car as a DD. Some of that was due to the cables, but the GT3 transmission is much different than a Carrera tranny and feels a lot tighter and precise. You basically can't replicate the GT3 shifting experience because the GT3 tranny is a big part. I also owned a 997.1 Carrera S and installed the FF cable ends and the difference in feel was not as noticeable. It was more for peace of mind than anything, IMO.
01-10-2022 | 03:34 PM
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From: Chino Hills
I think different driving style requires a different short-shifter solution. I mainly drive my car on the street and enjoy occasional spirited canyon drive so I value smoothness as well as mechanical engagement. I actually like the standard shifter feel but also wanted to shorten the shift travel so I went with the Porsche SSK + addition of Phenix metal bushings. I agree with "heavy ****'s" assessment on how each component would contribute to improve your shifting enjoyment. This would be my personal satisfaction scale for your reference:
Standard Shifter = 75%
Standard Shifter + Heavier shift **** (162g Porsche XFN shifter vs stock 85g) = 80%
Standard Shifter + Heavier shift **** + OEM SSK = 90%
Standard Shifter + Heavier shift **** + OEM SSK + Phenix metal bushing (a la GT3) + 0.10 mm steel washer (to fill the side lever slack) = 92%
If the occasional problem of shifting from Neutral to 1st, and from 1st to 2nd shift (when cold) could be eliminated, then I'd have a 100% satisfied shifter set up.
Standard Shifter = 75%
Standard Shifter + Heavier shift **** (162g Porsche XFN shifter vs stock 85g) = 80%
Standard Shifter + Heavier shift **** + OEM SSK = 90%
Standard Shifter + Heavier shift **** + OEM SSK + Phenix metal bushing (a la GT3) + 0.10 mm steel washer (to fill the side lever slack) = 92%
If the occasional problem of shifting from Neutral to 1st, and from 1st to 2nd shift (when cold) could be eliminated, then I'd have a 100% satisfied shifter set up.
Last edited by speedracerf4i; 01-11-2022 at 01:41 PM. Reason: grammar correction
01-11-2022 | 01:02 AM
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I see people mention the gt3 as a short shift kit. I believe it is just metal bushings and not a short kit if my memory is correct.
Just in case someone reads this later.
I had the function first kit with an OEM short shift kit. Was great. Now with a numeric it is better but not twice as good. I’d be happy with either. I do wish the heavy ***** fit my x97 shifter.
Just in case someone reads this later.
I had the function first kit with an OEM short shift kit. Was great. Now with a numeric it is better but not twice as good. I’d be happy with either. I do wish the heavy ***** fit my x97 shifter.
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01-11-2022 | 11:05 AM
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I see people mention the gt3 as a short shift kit. I believe it is just metal bushings and not a short kit tug my memory is correct.
Just in case someone reads this later.
I had the function first kit with an OEM short shift kit. Was great. Now with a numeric it is better but not twice as good. I’d be happy with either. I do wish the heavy ***** fit my x97 shifter.
Just in case someone reads this later.
I had the function first kit with an OEM short shift kit. Was great. Now with a numeric it is better but not twice as good. I’d be happy with either. I do wish the heavy ***** fit my x97 shifter.
Also keep in mind that even a brand new 997.2 GT3 shifter’s bushings have some fore/aft play in it. And the shifter yoke that translates lateral (side-side) shift lever motion to the other shift cable remains unchanged across all OEM shifters, and that component is where some of the lateral free play originates.
