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Does anyone have an update on this topic? I'm considering the purchase of upgraded seats for during driver's education on the track and 997/987 sports seats seem like a great option. They are fairly pricey, and I would like to have some confidence that I can make them work in my 986 before I buy them.
Does anyone have an update on this topic? I'm considering the purchase of upgraded seats for during driver's education on the track and 997/987 sports seats seem like a great option. They are fairly pricey, and I would like to have some confidence that I can make them work in my 986 before I buy them.
Thanks,
I am loving mine. They bolt right in to a 996, and presumably to a 986 too. They look great. I like the feel of them. I bought mine from a wreck with a blown thorax airbag on one of them and got a heck of a deal.
For documentation - As I said in my last post, I was waiting on the gateway module form a 981 to connect to my seats to see if I could figure something out as to why my 18-way modules were effectively locked up. I got the gateway module and connected it to the seat via the can hi-lo wires, and the seats started working! For some reason I was not able to connect to the gateway module via a scanner, but it turns out that I didn't need to. I have been told by Porsche master techs on other forums that the seats do not need CAN to function. Unsurprisingly, they seem to be correct. But if the modules can get into a mode where they need to see that CAN just one time to wake up? And after that, they're good? Something to do with the accident that blew the one thorax bag. I don't know. Very happy that my seats work though! To be clear, I only had to introduce the gateway module once on the bench. I do not have the 981 gateway connected to the seats in the car. Heck the module might have just needed to see the 2.5v or whatever (don't quote me) across the can lo and hi lines.
Getting the heating and cooling to work was another whole thing. The heaters just want a PWM +12V like you'd expect. The ventilation wants a PWM signal where the high is when the output is pulled to ground. I bought a little module from AliExpress with heat and cool, and a nice little ****, and for ventilation it wanted to output PWM where high was +12V, and also the PWM duty cycles were way off. I had to make my own little Arduino deal to get ventilation to work. Duty cycle for low, med, high, are pretty close to 100%, so I couldn't just invert the 12V to ground. That would have been too easy.
Two more things. When I got mine from a wrecker, I called and asked if they wouldn't mind snipping the pigtail form the chassis-side for the seat connector. The yellow one. They said no problem. It saved a lot of time and money to have those and once wired in it's like factory.
I also transplanted the seatbelt from my 996 to the new sport seat. The connections and resistances are different between the two, so even though the seatbelt from the new seat looked better visually, I went with the 996 one. The old 996 seatbelt reciever bolts right up to the 981 seat. Presumably it's the same for 987/997 in a 986 too.
That is possible. It would seem like an odd path to make the seats in a 997 reliant on CAN, and then remove that for later generations.
I agree.
I will be looking at some 997/987 seats this week. If I decide to buy a set, I hope I have the same success you experienced. I have some experience with seat upgrades, and I appreciate the opportunity to benefit from your experience.
Last edited by KevinH2000; 01-23-2023 at 10:08 AM.
I took a leap of faith and bought some seats from a 2009 997
I know I am taking a risk, but yesterday was my birthday and I decided to buy these seats:
The seller claimed they are from a 2009 997 with 51,000 miles. They have all the options I wanted including heat.
As Floridaman recommended, I also have the pigtails from the car.
The less complicated side (I assume it is the passenger) is mostly power and ground.
The twisted wires are most likely the CAN high and CAN low. I am assuming anything predominantly brown is ground and predominantly red is power.
I have a computer power supply that I can use for 12-volt power. My plan is to use this to power the seat and experiment until am comfortable with my understanding of how the seat operates. I hope that I am as fortunate as Floridaman and have working seats without too many complications. There is a good series of videos on YouTube showing how to connect the seat heaters from 997/987 seats and make them work with 986/996 controls. I'm not planning to make use of the CAN bus, so I don't expect to make to be able to make the memory work.
For documentation - As I said in my last post, I was waiting on the gateway module form a 981 to connect to my seats to see if I could figure something out as to why my 18-way modules were effectively locked up. I got the gateway module and connected it to the seat via the can hi-lo wires, and the seats started working! For some reason I was not able to connect to the gateway module via a scanner, but it turns out that I didn't need to. I have been told by Porsche master techs on other forums that the seats do not need CAN to function. Unsurprisingly, they seem to be correct. But if the modules can get into a mode where they need to see that CAN just one time to wake up? And after that, they're good? Something to do with the accident that blew the one thorax bag. I don't know. Very happy that my seats work though! To be clear, I only had to introduce the gateway module once on the bench. I do not have the 981 gateway connected to the seats in the car. Heck the module might have just needed to see the 2.5v or whatever (don't quote me) across the can lo and hi lines.
The harnesses that the seller included with the seats were from another car and didn't have the correct connector for the memory module. I managed to find one:
Although the seller cut the harness, I should be able to solder the parts back together without difficulty.
I appreciate that there are some differences between what I am attempting to do and what Floridaman accomplished. His seats are from a 981 and mine started life in a 997. He installed his in a 996 and I'm installing mine in a 986. It's possible that there are differences between the 981 and the 997, but the 986 and 996 are likely to be identical as far as the seats are concerned.
Based on the information Floridaman provided, it appears that I need to purchase a 997 Gateway module and connect the CAN high and CAN low wires from the memory module in the seat to Gateway module. I will also need to provide power and ground to the Gateway module. If Floridaman's experience is a guide, this should "wake up" the memory.
If I am not interpreting Floridaman correctly please let me know.
Floridaman responded to a message I sent him last night and I'm posting the information he shared in the event it will help someone or generate additional information.
Based on the information Floridaman provided, it appears that you can "wake up" the driver's seat memory module by hooking it up to a compatible gateway control module. Floridaman has 981 seats. Since I have 997 seats, the control module looks like this: Top View View Showing 20-pin Input
The connector and pigtail for the Gateway look like this: This is an Audi part, but it is common for Porsche/VW/Audi to use the same suppliers.
The parts are relatively inexpensive. I purchased them on an auction site for a total of $43.56.
Floridaman also provided a suggestion for a source for a wiring diagram. Based on the wiring diagram, the pinout for the unit is:A1 SUPPLY – Connected in wiring diagram – Red/Green
A2 SUPPLY – Not connected in wiring diagram
A3 n.a.
A4 n.a.
A5 KOMFORT CAN LOW (Black/White)
A6 DRIVE CAN LOW
A7 RESERVE
A8 DISPLAY CAN LOW
A9 DIAGNOSTIC CAN LOW
A10 RESERVE KOMFORT 2
A11 GROUND – Connected in wiring diagram - Brown/Brown
A12 GROUND – Not connected in wiring diagram - Green/Green
A13 WAKE UP CLUSTER/PCM - Black/Black
A14 TERM.16 - Yellow/Yellow
A15 KOMFORT CAN HIGH (Yellow/White)
A16 DRIVE CAN HIGH
A17 RESERVE
A18 DISPLAY CAN HIGH - Yellow/Blue
A19 DIAGNOSTIC CAN HIGH - Yellow/Red
A20 RESERVE KOMFORT 2
The wire colors may not be accurate for the connector and pigtail I bought, and I will rely on the pin positions during the next phase of the project.
Based on Floridaman's success, my next steps will be to:
1. Connect 12-volt power to pin A1.
2. Connect a ground to pin A11.
3. Connect the Komfort CAN Low (Pin A5) to the CAN Low on the seat connector.
4. Connect the Komfort CAN High (Pin A15) to the CAN High on the seat connector.
5. Turn on the power and see what happens.
Please feel free to provide critical feedback.
On the wiring diagram for the Gateway module, A14 is TERM 15 in the diagram that I'm looking at (07 CU Gateway). I did not have a lot of time to go through other diagrams to figure out what that is again, but that might be switched 12V. Don't take my word for that though. But it could be that there is a constant 12V and a switched 12V. If you look at a few other diagrams in there, you'll figure it out. This is also likely to other Porsche models. the 981 diagrams also had TERMXX which were common throughout the diagrams.
Also, If you or someone else wants to try this out, they might be able to get the seat modules to wake up by connecting anything that will generate the voltages that a can but line sees. Could be a batter or voltage source. It looks like that is something like 2.5v (from ground?) on both wires, and the CAN high gets half a volt or so higher and the CAN low goes half a volt or so lower to transmit data. It could be that the seats just need to see the voltage. Just throwing that out there, if someone already has say a CANUSB adapter or something. Maybe just wire it up and see if it works. It would be kind of nice to know if a simple battery or a can module will wake up the seats to save others from having to buy the gateway module.
On the wiring diagram for the Gateway module, A14 is TERM 15 in the diagram that I'm looking at (07 CU Gateway). I did not have a lot of time to go through other diagrams to figure out what that is again, but that might be switched 12V. Don't take my word for that though. But it could be that there is a constant 12V and a switched 12V. If you look at a few other diagrams in there, you'll figure it out. This is also likely to other Porsche models. the 981 diagrams also had TERMXX which were common throughout the diagrams.
Also, if you or someone else wants to try this out, they might be able to get the seat modules to wake up by connecting anything that will generate the voltages that a can but line sees. Could be a batter or voltage source. It looks like that is something like 2.5v (from ground?) on both wires, and the CAN high gets half a volt or so higher and the CAN low goes half a volt or so lower to transmit data.
Thanks for the feedback. The wiring diagram I'm using (attached) is not crystal clear. A14 looked like it matches up with TERM.16, but it could be TERM.15 too.
I'm eager to move forward with this project and tempted to see whether applying voltage to the CAN lines will wake up the memory module. I am concerned that I could damage a component in the memory module if I stray too far from the process that worked for you. I'll wait impatiently for my parts to arrive and then do exactly what you did.
I understand that you have 981 seats and I have 997 seats. There may be enough differences between those generations of Porsches that your method won't work for me. But, it is definitely worth exploring this option before I start soldering jumper cables on circuit boards and filing off circuits as shown on the Pelican website.
I received my components and I'm proceeding with care.
The components that I need for the next step in the process arrived in the mail. Audi Connector & Wiring Harness with 997 Gateway
The pins numbers on the connector match the numbers on the gateway.
Sorry for the poor focus. Pins are numbered from right to left starting at the top. It is difficult to see in this photo, but pin #1 is on the top left and pin #11 is on the bottom left.
Not surprisingly, the wire colors and locations on the Audi connector are not consistent with the wiring diagram for the Porsche gateway module.
Tomorrow's task will be to move the wires so that they align with the Porsche pin out:
A1 – Leave Red/Blue - Connect to 12 Volt Power
A 11 – Move Brown/Blue from A8 - Connect to Ground
A5 – Move White/Gray from A16 - Connect to CAN Low
A15 - Leave Green/Gray - Connect to CAN High
If this arrangement doesn't work when I connect to the seat, I will consider adding Power to A4 and Ground to A14.
As I always, I welcome suggestions and feedback.
Last edited by KevinH2000; 02-26-2023 at 12:48 AM.
My first attempt to use the Gateway to operate the seats was unsuccessful.
My first attempt to use the gateway to wake up the seat memory didn't work. I'm taking a step back and taking a methodical approach.
I've been using a salvaged computer power supply to provide 12-votlt power. During my previous tests, the supply would stop working. I had been using wire nuts to connect wires and I think that may have been the cause of that problem. Here's my current set up:
This configuration provides steady 12-volt power.
With the power-supply issue under control, I'm now reviewing my assumptions about the wiring. The main yellow plug to the seat has several power and grouund wires. I identified the power and grouund wires for the seat heater, and they are currently capped with a wire nut to simplify the analysis of the other wiring issues. The main power and grouund wires are connected to the power supply as shown in the picture above.
The black plug that fits into the seat memory has 6 wires in it.
According to the wiring diagrams I've been able to find, the wires are:
A1 - Red/Red - Terminal 38 Ground of power - Consumers
A2 - Brown/Brown - Terminal 31 Ground of power - Consumers
A3 - Red/Black - Terminal 38 - Electronic
A8 - Black/Black - CAN Komfort low
A9 - Brown/Brown - Terminal 31 Electronic
A13 - Yellow/Yellow - CAN Komfort high
I have attached the wiring diagram I've been using.
I find it odd that the wiring diagram states that the red wire in terminal A1 is "Ground of power" since I usually associate a red wire with + 12-volt power. Perhaps I'm missing something. I've been connecting that wire to the positive terminal on the 12-volt power source. I've connected the Brown wire in A2 to the negative terminal. I had connected the Red/Black wire on A3 to + 12-volt power and the Brown wire on A9 to the ground.
When using the Gateway, I connected the Black wire on A8 (of the memory connector) to A5 KOMFORT CAN LOW (Black/White) on the Audi Gateway connector and the Yellow wire on A13 (of the memory connector) to A15 KOMFORT CAN HIGH (Yellow/White) on the Audi Gateway connector. I also provided power and ground to the Gateway module.
I may be missing something obvious. If anyone has feedback or suggestions, please feel free to offer them.
01-21-2023 | 09:56 AM
