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Been thinking about this recently and curious to hear other perspectives...
Why do # of owners of a car make much of an impact? Sure, it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy when you are the 2nd or 3rd owner but why? When I was in the market for a 997, I considered a 06 C2S with 9 previous owners. Definitely high and makes you wonder if its a game of hot potato with a bad drivetrain, electrical nightmare, or a poorly repaired car. But a proper inspection of the car is all that really matters, right? And I feel like a 911 in particular, is not always a primary driver so that might increase the # of owners being that there are additional legitimate reasons why someone would need or want to sell their car and it might have nothing to do with the condition of the car itself. What I care more about than a low number of owners is how long (in time or miles) the seller has owned the car, if maintenance records are available, and if the car was subject to salty roads.
Agree or disagree?
That being said I ended up with a 997 with less than 9 owners
I agree completely. Never understood the "must be 2 owner car or less" requirement by some looking to buy. As you say, isn't the condition of the car, maint./service records available and the result of a thorough PPI more important than the number of owners? I've seen one owner cars that looked like they had never been cleaned with any purpose inside or out and with no maint. records. I've also seen 3 or 4 owner cars looking like new with extensive maint. records since the car was bought new.
So the number of owner argument never made much sense to me. I think there are droves of other factors that carry more weight than that. Another thing to consider is that a 4 owner car hasn't necessarily been driven and maintained by 4 different owners. Cars transfer title for a number of reasons that are unrelated to the actual number of owners who drove and maintained the car.
I would always rather have less owners than more and truly I'm much more of a new car guy! Also old school...low mileage means a lot to me. I'll never sell mine but if I did I have every record ever and it's a great color (IMO LOL!) that was PTS. Manual too. Even with a rear end accident 9 years ago which was fixed perfectly I beleive I'd get a good $$ for it. This is my 4th and final 911.
I still can't believe I was able to own even one...I am a lucky guy!
My next door neighbor had a 2003 turbo, black over black but with Tiptronic. It looked great, sounded great and was a low mile car. He moved to Audi R8s and the turbo sat outside his garage under a car cover with very little attention. When he decided to sell, he sold it to a friend who owns the tire store/service center he used for $10k. My bottom lip was poked out for awhile since I missed a great opportunity to buy a really neat car for cheap. Well, this one owner low mile car ended up costing the new owner an additional $40k to get it right mechanically and is currently in the shop for another $5-8k worth of work. There’s nothing more expensive than a cheap Porsche.
Perdido
You're "buying" the previous owner(s) as much as the car. If a 10-15 year old car has had say 8 owners, how well do you think the car was maintained assuming no documentation? Doubtful someone who intends to keep it 12-18 months will do much preventative maintenance, or even properly warm the car up before taking it to redline, etc. Just something to consider among other things.
@Optionman1 you touch on what I thing is possibly the one argument for having one owner - you are more likely to have a complete picture of the maintenance history since the car has not changed hands. Doesn’t guarantee it, neither does having multiple owners mean you won’t ever get a full maintenance history, it just seems way less likely w/more owners involved. . .
Car condition and history trump number of previous owners and in many cases this is a good thing with nice cars as each owner spends a good buck on maintenance and up keep.
Between Canada and the US here cars are always being purchased going one way or the other across the border when the dollar is low so it is not uncommon to see a car with 3 or four previous owners. My experience is cross border cars do not usually stay with the original importer for long as in many cases they flip the car after a short while $$ looking for the next deal.
Buying a 1-owner car would suggest (in theory) that a documented service history would be less complicated and perhaps more easily obtained and that in being driven by only one person over it's life (and this is more of a stretch), that it may have been exposed to less abuse.
I've found through my own experience and observations that a significant amount of damage / abuse that a car can incur happens when a car is being transitioned from one owner to the next (perhaps through the turnover during the auction process - or maybe just while it is with a selling dealer. The car being demo'd / driven by sales people or "dreamers" looking to "see how fast a Porsche really can go...!"). Also being exposed on a dealer lot (close proximity to other cars - nicks / dings / etc.) When a car is with the dealers - there really is no concerned "caretaker" for it - and whatever happens to it just happens.
So if a car transitions from multiple owners through auction processes or just through selling dealerships - in theory the odds are that it may be in worse shape than if it was a 1-owner car.
All of that said - the problem is - "In Theory" is just that - a guess based on what is believed to "possibly" may be the reality. It absolutely is not a true factual telling indicator of what the actual condition of the car is.
Even though the odds suggest that a multiple owner car "may" be a lesser car - I would recommend that a prospective buyer always evaluate the car based on the reality of what it really is.
I am the 5th owner of my 911. It was owned by people who lived in the upper mid-west (Chicago and Ohio) - where the weather for a significant amount of the year sucks. In theory, the car should have been at best, in just average condition.
As it turned out - the car was absolutely in pristine shape (and that is no current-owner bias). It came with a complete, documented maintenance / service history. Had I followed what "theory" dictated, I would have written the car off and never looked at it in the first place. That would have been a monumental mistake.
Buying a 1-owner car would suggest (in theory) that a documented service history would be less complicated and perhaps more easily obtained and that in being driven by only one person over it's life (and this is more of a stretch), that it may have been exposed to less abuse.
I've found through my own experience and observations that a significant amount of damage / abuse that a car can incur happens when a car is being transitioned from one owner to the next (perhaps through the turnover during the auction process - or maybe just while it is with a selling dealer. The car being demo'd / driven by sales people or "dreamers" looking to "see how fast a Porsche really can go...!"). Also being exposed on a dealer lot (close proximity to other cars - nicks / dings / etc.) When a car is with the dealers - there really is no concerned "caretaker" for it - and whatever happens to it just happens.
So if a car transitions from multiple owners through auction processes or just through selling dealerships - in theory the odds are that it may be in worse shape than if it was a 1-owner car.
All of that said - the problem is - "In Theory" is just that - a guess based on what is believed to "possibly" may be the reality. It absolutely is not a true factual telling indicator of what the actual condition of the car is.
Even though the odds suggest that a multiple owner car "may" be a lesser car - I would recommend that a prospective buyer always evaluate the car based on the reality of what it really is.
I am the 5th owner of my 911. It was owned by people who lived in the upper mid-west (Chicago and Ohio) - where the weather for a significant amount of the year sucks. In theory, the car should have been at best, in just average condition.
As it turned out - the car was absolutely in pristine shape (and that is no current-owner bias). It came with a complete, documented maintenance / service history. Had I followed what "theory" dictated, I would have written the car off and never looked at it in the first place. That would have been a monumental mistake.
The “theory” that you are buying the previous owner(s) holds true whether there were 1, 5, or 10 PO. A 1 owner car doesn’t guarantee that the 1 owner treated the car perfectly or poorly, nor does a 5 owner car guaranteed any or all of them treated the car perfectly or poorly. The only truism is however they treated it, you are inheriting their actions, known via receipts or not.
Last edited by Optionman1; 02-08-2021 at 02:11 PM.
I am the 5th owner of my 911. It was owned by people who lived in the upper mid-west (Chicago and Ohio) - where the weather for a significant amount of the year sucks. In theory, the car should have been at best, in just average condition.
As it turned out - the car was absolutely in pristine shape (and that is no current-owner bias). It came with a complete, documented maintenance / service history. Had I followed what "theory" dictated, I would have written the car off and never looked at it in the first place. That would have been a monumental mistake.
@Ironman88 Super relevant point - You can use the "theory" to focus the questions you try and answer during your due diligence process, but make decisions on the fact you manage to collect on the car you're interested in. Keep in mind, no matter how thorough the due diligence process, there will always be an element of risk in the decision process (what questions would you have like to have answered but didn't manage to answer?). Those to me are the two biggest elements driving the purchase decisions I've made.
@Ironman88 Super relevant point - You can use the "theory" to focus the questions you try and answer during your due diligence process, but make decisions on the fact you manage to collect on the car you're interested in. Keep in mind, no matter how thorough the due diligence process, there will always be an element of risk in the decision process (what questions would you have like to have answered but didn't manage to answer?). Those to me are the two biggest elements driving the purchase decisions I've made.
Very true.
The purchase of used anything = risk. The (usually high emotionally-driven) purchase of an expensive sports car = RISK (particularly a Porsche.)
All you can do is gather as much factual data as you possibly can; carefully evaluate what you receive; chart your follow up strategy and steps in accordance with that.
Being 100% committed, determined, focused, organized and resourceful can really help.
Great dialog, seems there are strong opinions on both sides. I admittedly don't look at the forums on a regular basis and did not notice a recent similar thread. This is purely a subjective subject but what I'm hearing is with low number of owners there is a greater likelihood of having records (agreed) and a greater likelihood of the car being a good example (mixed feelings but sure, ok). As for the greater likelihood of having records... I'm just skipping ahead and saying I highly value records, I don't care as much if the same people wrote the check for the work. Who did the work is of some importance as I wouldn't enjoy seeing Jiffy Lube responsible for changing oil only because it makes you wonder if corner were cut elsewhere.
02-08-2021, 02:56 AM
