heavysixer22

I'm stalling as long as I can before putting my 997.1 away for the winter.

So far the days in Northern NJ have been mild and the roads remain salt free, but the high temps are getting colder.

I've read some anecdotes here that the PS4S's I have on the car start to get hard and slippery under 40 degrees Fahrenheit, but I haven't been able to find any definitive info on what temp is too cold for the tires.

I'm not looking to go full send in freezing temps, just driving the car in a mildly spirited way so I can experience the feel and the sounds as long as I can before I put the baby to bed.

The car is kept in an attached garage, which isn't heated but stays about 20 degrees above the outside temp, so the tires aren't going to be ice cold when I roll out on most days.

Anyone have any definitive info on what outdoor temp I should use as the cutoff for being too cold to drive on a new set of PS4S's?

Ironman88

I think the key concern is not low ambient temperature as much as it is low temp combined with moisture on the road. If the roads are dry, I think you're fine in most situations.

andino

I got caught in 15F early morning conditions when traveling in UT before. Tires felt stiff and didn't really have much feel but roads were dry so they were okay. Weather forecasts were 50F+ for the duration of our trip so I didn't swap to winter tires before heading over from CA. I've used my PS4s down to around 35F before without too much trouble in dry or damp conditions for just commuting but I wouldn't push them spiritedly below 40F because they start to lose feel and grip drops off pretty quickly around there.

G.I.G.

I'm still driving my car with PS4S tires here in Colorado, temps and road conditions permitting. I'm sure there is an exact specification for the temperature floor on these tires out there somewhere, but my general rule of thumb is to try to avoid driving the car below 50 degrees, and almost never below 40. I took my family out to dinner up a canyon about a month ago. It was about 55 degrees when we left our house, but at the higher elevation and shorter days, it was 37 degrees according to my car when we left the restaurant. Took the canyon back down and it was fine. Just be aware that even on dry pavement on a cold day, you will not have the traction that you do when it's above 60 degrees.

Bruce In Philly

2009 C2S 164K miles

I can't say the coldest I've driven my PS4S but here in Philly, it ain't too bad. And in sets I've owned, on my 2nd now, I have never experienced any change in performance regardless of tempurature. Of course, I don't drive at the limits or like a nut, but for normal, spritied driving, no change for me. However, I would NEVER drive in the snow with them. I got caught in an early snow shower last year 1 week before Thanxgiving.... got stuck in my neighborhood on a slight incline... I literally had to shovel myself out with help of others. These summer tires are DEADLY in anything frozen.

So I swap my summers for Michelin Alpins on both Her and my car on Thanxgiving weekend and target around March 15 for the next swap back. For me, the issue is not temperature, but getting caught in even the slightest snow.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

dmpslc

You'll notice a considerable difference in stiffness and grip below 40 degrees on most summer tires. Tire Rack cautions against driving under 40, and I'm pretty sure that Michelin says the same. Sure TR wants to sell you tires and Michelin wants to protect themselves, but as a 4 season driver in UT I can attest to that. I'm currently on PZeros and below 40 degrees there is a significant feel and traction difference in the tire. If it's been 40 for a few days, and sunny, and you've warmed the tires up driving for a bit you might not notice it as much. If it's been in the low 30s, cloudy, and the car hasn't moved in a while you'll know it the minute you pull out of the garage and it won't get much better. Stick to straight roads

Phrog Phlyer

Michelin Info - although they test on ice - See Video right side of page - the colder it is the less grip summer tires have - https://www.michelinmedia.com/pages/...ticle/c0/a575/

Consumer Reports Info - https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...ow%20and%20ice.

heavysixer22

That's what I've been using as well, but maybe I'll explore colder situations as long as the road is dry and I can keep a gentle right foot.

Liste-Renn

I distinctly remember a Michelin warning about driving a summer performance tire in low temperatures (<40 deg F).

Besides poor performance (diminished grip, braking distance), the warning mentioned possible damage to the treadbocks and also sidewall damage resulting from large temperature swings while mounted to a vehicle (weighted).

I will research it when I have time and post here with the source citation.

I concur with Bruce in PHL, the Michelin Alpin N spec tires are designed for the conditions the OP, and other posters, are flirting with. Not smart, IMO.

Not that I am holier than thou- got caught in some passes in the Alps in September and October on my Euro Delivery. Was in a Macan GTS on Pirelli P Zero summer performance tires. Sketchy grip at ambient 39 deg F, especially downhill braking in switchback turns. When I later encountered snow in late October, it was like driving on ice skates. Yeah, I lived, but I was second guessing my decision to forgo the free loaner winter tires offered by PAG.

That said, the Pirellis were loads of fun in warmer parts of Italy- on the autostrada, Tuscan hill twisties and even rocked on the ubiquitous agricultural gravel roads.

BucketList

I have PSS on my car and I can feel her slide more at 50 deg compared to summer temps. There is a sharp S curve near my house that I like to take fast because it has excellent visibility and she definitely drifted more the last time I hit it. It's generally 90+ here in the summer so maybe I'm spoiled always having hot rubber. I typically choose another car if it's low 40's or colder.

dmpslc

Michelin, Pirelli, Goodyear all represented in this TSB from GM.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...82862-5448.pdf

Doug H

I drive these and all my high performance summer tires, including Rs, year around even when it occasionally gets in the teens and 20s here in the South.

Those tires have plenty of grip in cold weather and in rain. They probably have better grip than many crappy tires put on a lot of cars, especially with engine in rear provided you use common sense and do not try and drive at the limits.

I took one of my really tight long sweeping on ramps 2 days ago on cold tires and temps in the 30s. I drive this several times a day as it is right by my house.

I usually start feeling a little push on this ramp at 58 or 59 mph as the radius decreases. I hit that decreasing radius part at 56 mph that cold morning (low 30s) as I was on phone not thinking about it. For a second, it dawned on me. COLD TIRES and COLD ROAD, but I just put 2 hands on the wheel and used maintenance throttle as I was committed and lifting would have been bad. The car remained perfectly settled without a hint of drama. Plenty of cold grip.

Liste-Renn

Totally disagree with you, Doug H.

"Crappy" tires with tread formulations for cold temps are measurably superior to your summer performance tires at temps below zero.
And the tread formulations of snow tires are measurably inferior at extremely high temperatures.

That is the reasoning behind "All Season" tires. They are formulated for owners who do not want to deal with the hassle/expense of dedicated seasonal tires. They are a compromised tread formulation that doesn't perform as well as dedicated summer or winter tires at temperature extremes.

So believe what you will- though the fact that the technology exists says otherwise.
Yeah, you can drive on summer tires in winter conditions occasionally without any drama- but that doesn't prove your point. It is not a pure marketing ploy.

Doug H

I have never once put a set of winter tires on any car ever and I drive in snow, rain all year around. Never had any problems. Not once. This includes old PS, PS2s and etc as well as Rs. I have even driven on Hossier R6s in 20 and 30 degree dry, sunny days.

I have also been on the track on many cold mornings in 30s and 40s. Just warm them up a bit and I still had fun.

Just my perspective and my personal experience. I don't go by what I read on the Net.

Here is a technical bulletin from Michelin recently released (I have used my UHPs in temps below 20, but that is pretty rare where I have lived):

At tire temperatures below 20F (-7°C) Michelin UHP Sport Summer tires may develop surface cracks in the upper sidewall and tread area if flexed. Do not use, roll, or drop MICHELIN UHP Sport Summer tires with temperatures below 20°F (-7°C). If the tires have been cooled to 20°F (-7°C) or less, let them warm up in a heated space to at least 40°F (5°C) before being installed or moving a vehicle on which they are installed. Do not apply heat or blow heated air directly on the tires. Always inspect tires before use after exposure to temperatures below 20°F (-7°C).

Doug H

Here is lead in to video taken from Youtube page:

"Michelin Pilot Sport 4S Review in below freezing temperature on my Shelby GT350. This tire is simply incredible in every regard I never experienced such a good tire that can do everything beyond the limits with no compromises. Just shot this video live in NY and it is cold as hell! I do not recommend anyone to drive on summer tires below 45 degree temps. This video was conducted just as a test and these tires are not a replacement for winter or all season variants. Hope you guys enjoy the video and please subscribe. Any questions shoot me an email direct: autofanatic@yahoo.com"