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I had a 996 HPDE car that was 2882 Ready to Race (er, drive). I ran 18's (GT3 Fitment) with full suspension upgrades (GMG/Elephant Racing/Ohlins), rear RSS bar, harness with stock belts, etc. The exhaust was a big weight savings (full system, cat deletes, etc), but I never removed the frunk lining.
Really awesome thread, and its so fun to make these cars a close relative to race-bred cousins with daily livability! Makes me wish I had spent the time to weigh the stock and aftermarket parts, but I can say the suspension parts alone were a big weight savings.
Dave @ Soul
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Hi! I´ve done a few mods on my 2006 997.1 C2 manual, trying to learn from yours. I´ve installed the Fabspeed headers and made a locally developed exhaust, catless and with an X pipe. The car behaviour in lower rpm is much less torquey. I used to drive the car around town at very low rpm (due to the car being with muffler bypass) so the sound was very quiet and the torque and power was just there, you could press the throtlle and you can launch the car at any rpm range. Now with the Fabspeed headers you need to be with the car above 3500/4000rpm to have a quick response. I´ve dynoed the car with this mod and it has 355hp now, at 7000rpm... but in lower rpms I feel I´ve lost power and torque. I´ve been in conversarions with Fabspeed for many weeks and finally they told me their mods and almost all the mods for this car are intended for gains at the top of the rpm range, and it´s impossible to contemplate both ends of the rpm range gains. Wheather you can gain low end power or higher rpm. How are you feeling about this? You can check my mods on the instagram I´ve made for it: @perfect_997c2
Any suggestion is well received as I´m now in the middle of the river, I dont know if going back to install the OEM headers is the way, or making a ECU tunning or buying all the performance parts Fabspeed sells to complete the tune (Intake,exhaust and ECU tune).
I want the best car for the track, but I want to use it on the streets also, and I want it to be as good as OEM in low rpm and the best at higher rpm!! I mean, I want to gain power at higher rpm but I dont want to loose power at lower rpm...is it possible?
In my opinion, the main cause of your low end performance loss would be the catless xpipe. Was the xpipe made and installed the same time as the Fabspeed headers?
I had a 996 HPDE car that was 2882 Ready to Race (er, drive). I ran 18's (GT3 Fitment) with full suspension upgrades (GMG/Elephant Racing/Ohlins), rear RSS bar, harness with stock belts, etc. The exhaust was a big weight savings (full system, cat deletes, etc), but I never removed the frunk lining.
Really awesome thread, and its so fun to make these cars a close relative to race-bred cousins with daily livability! Makes me wish I had spent the time to weigh the stock and aftermarket parts, but I can say the suspension parts alone were a big weight savings.
Dave @ Soul
Thanks for sharing your experience. Good information on the suspension parts. One thing that I struggled to gather a whole lot of weight information on was the suspension components. None of the vendors really advertised the weight loss benefit of their products. I have always assumed that the weight difference was negligible.
It’s hard to say with these exhaust conversations what was lost here and gained there. I struggled to see a loss of low down torque with my mods. It might be there but it’s so small and the trade off was the car seemed to rip through the rev range so much faster. I like my car better with my x51 airbox, max speed plenum, evosit tune, fabspeed headers, catted xpipe, and muffler deletes…
I’ve done a good bit of weight reduction as well. Next up is the Hartech closed deck engine rebuild
In my opinion, the main cause of your low end performance loss would be the catless xpipe. Was the xpipe made and installed the same time as the Fabspeed headers?
This ^
X pipes known to improve sound and top end breathing, but bad for low/mid range torque.
Going catless is great for top end breathing and throttle response generally, but again known to sap low and mid-range torque.
It’s generally thought that the lack of cats affects cylinder scavenging negatively.
Fit some good quality HJS 200 cell cats and go back to a non-X pipe arrangement (along with a decent live remap) and the torque should be restored whilst retaining the improved throttle response and ability to breath more freely throughout the rev range.
I want the best car for the track, but I want to use it on the streets also, and I want it to be as good as OEM in low rpm and the best at higher rpm!! I mean, I want to gain power at higher rpm but I dont want to loose power at lower rpm...is it possible?
I too struggled with the loss of low end. I had a complete catless system, x-pipe, ipd plenum, EVOMS intake, FVD Throttle body and even had the car tuned. The little 3.4 would scream past 4500 rpms, but it certainly felt less eager in the lower RPMS. Part of that I chalked up to it wanting to rev faster and while the tune improved the entire package (It was awesome on the track for a 996), you can't have big gains at either end of the spectrum with these NA engines it seems. The Softronic tune will certainly "help" and it will offer more power and drive ability over all. Our Sport Cats are 200 cell and keep the OE exhaust routing without an X-Pipe to help preserve the torque. There are a lot of great options out there, but I would personally start with the tune as you would want that to optimize all of the mods you already have.
Feel free to DM me with any questions, we are here to help.
In my opinion, the main cause of your low end performance loss would be the catless xpipe. Was the xpipe made and installed the same time as the Fabspeed headers?
No. The catless xpipe was made by a local shop and I´m also concerned that the could be the main cause for the loss of down low torque. That´s why I´m buying all the parts from Fabspeed to complete the sport kit, with their X pipe sport cats, the super cup exhaust, the carbon "Y" intake and the ECU tunning. I hope with all these mods the car would perform better than stock.
I¨ll keep you posted. You can also check the mods I´m making in the Instagram of the car: @perfect_997c2
Rgrds
Diego
I too struggled with the loss of low end. I had a complete catless system, x-pipe, ipd plenum, EVOMS intake, FVD Throttle body and even had the car tuned. The little 3.4 would scream past 4500 rpms, but it certainly felt less eager in the lower RPMS. Part of that I chalked up to it wanting to rev faster and while the tune improved the entire package (It was awesome on the track for a 996), you can't have big gains at either end of the spectrum with these NA engines it seems. The Softronic tune will certainly "help" and it will offer more power and drive ability over all. Our Sport Cats are 200 cell and keep the OE exhaust routing without an X-Pipe to help preserve the torque. There are a lot of great options out there, but I would personally start with the tune as you would want that to optimize all of the mods you already have.
Feel free to DM me with any questions, we are here to help.
-Dave @ Soul
Tks Dave! I´m willing to make the headers work and it may seems that mixing brands is not the way as far as I´m experiencing with the results I´m getting. I don´t know why Fabspeed only makes X piped cats, if they have non X piped cats, I´ll be happy to install them, but I´ve asked and they only make X piped. I am concerned why they only make X pipe cats and many others too, and I couldn´t find any benefit from it besides from the sound. I would prefer performance over sound every day, and it seems X piped are better for the sound and worse for the performance, I dont know why they dont offer another better solution for performance only.
No. The catless xpipe was made by a local shop and I´m also concerned that the could be the main cause for the loss of down low torque. That´s why I´m buying all the parts from Fabspeed to complete the sport kit, with their X pipe sport cats, the super cup exhaust, the carbon "Y" intake and the ECU tunning. I hope with all these mods the car would perform better than stock.
I¨ll keep you posted. You can also check the mods I´m making in the Instagram of the car: @perfect_997c2
Rgrds
Diego
You may still experience low end loss with all the mods you mentioned. Look at the dyno graph posted by Fabspeed themselves on their catted xpipe below. Note the torque and hp loss below 3700 rpm. I don't think this is necessarily a design flaw. Some people are willing to trade some low end loss for high rpm gain.
If you are really concerned about the low end. Either put the stock cats back or look into the FVD units here. https://www.fvd.net/us-en/21011125/s...-mufflers.html
Tks Dave! I´m willing to make the headers work and it may seems that mixing brands is not the way as far as I´m experiencing with the results I´m getting. I don´t know why Fabspeed only makes X piped cats, if they have non X piped cats, I´ll be happy to install them, but I´ve asked and they only make X piped. I am concerned why they only make X pipe cats and many others too, and I couldn´t find any benefit from it besides from the sound. I would prefer performance over sound every day, and it seems X piped are better for the sound and worse for the performance, I dont know why they dont offer another better solution for performance only.
i haven’t tried the x-pipe but I have the soul non-catted crossover pipe and a softronic tune. I only notice a little low end power loss when I have PSE engaged and putting around town. W PSE off im guess I’m it creates a good amount of back pressure
the headers are getting installed next week and will be a brutal winter of not being able to try them out…
The souls products look awesome as well… getting my bumperettes removed
I haven't done anything to the car other than putting winter wheels and tires on and keep driving it since the last update. Exhausts and dyno tune are planned for later this year.
I'm looking to swap my stock power seats with racetech buckets, wondering what you had to do get the oem belts to work (specifically the receptacle and the connection for it, and coding). thanks !
I'm looking to swap my stock power seats with racetech buckets, wondering what you had to do get the oem belts to work (specifically the receptacle and the connection for it, and coding). thanks !
I went with the BBi seat base. https://bbiautosport.com/collections...and-slider-kit
It has a bracket for either lap belts anchors or stock seat belt receptacles. Check the seat compatibility on their product page to see if they will work with your seat of choice. I think the seat base is compatible with some Racetech seats.
The receptacles can still be plugged into the wiring harness. You just need to disable driver and passenger thorax airbags and passenger weight sensor with Durometric or equivalent to avoid airbag light.
It seems that I can no longer edit my previous posts. I can't find the edit button anymore. So I will just post the update here. I removed the passenger seat and seat base today. I will never take a passenger at this point and its just dead weight. Now the weight of the car is 2,979 lbs. It's officially sub 3,000 lbs! I have some black interior carpet material laying around so I trimmed a patch to cover the metal that was showing.
11-17-2021 | 11:21 AM
