Right, that's sort of what I'm going for. Mechanical watches are now pursued by enthusiasts and/or the very rich. What was once an ubiquitous item has been relegated to most of the populous checking the time on a digital device in their pocket, or now, a smartwatch on their wrist. Those that want a mechanical watch are specifically seeking them out, much like auto enthusiasts seeking out manual transmissions. I think manuals will never claw back quite the way mechanical watches have because the incumbent manufacturers don't have as much incentive to the way Swiss watch makers did, its much less an existential crisis because the public has accepted automatics as the preferred method. But I also don't think manuals will ever disappear entirely (so long as we still have gas powered vehicles), they will carve a small niche for those that specifically seek them out. I mean look at Ford's announcement just yesterday of a new Bronco with 7 speed manual as standard equipment. If that doesn't scream enthusiast niche, I don't know what does.

As a long time Porsche owner, IMO a Manual Transmission is the only way to go. To me shifting the car and choosing gears manually is all part of the Sports Car experience.
That will never change even if both my legs were amputated
So from your theory, only 20% of Porsche enthusiasts/drivers want Manual Transmission because that's why production of MT cars has dropped.
I believe the reason more PDK's are produced is that these days you have so many non-enthusiasts, women, Tech kids who have lots of money buying these cars and have no interest/ idea how to shift and just want to hop in and go. Also higher traffic density in cities contributes to PDK desirability.
So be it - who cares right?
But because of this phenomenon is reason the market value of MT 997 & 991 cars ARE higher and most likely also due to (as many pointed out) lower MT production numbers and less available for the MT market desiring them.
Therefore 997/991 MT's being rare and hard to find and have a higher resale. No brain surgery here and was my point from the very beginning of my input on the subject

I guess I don't understand how you can argue the point?
I'm not trying to pick a fight but months ago you had a hard time accepting the reality that your 997's market value and hard time selling was due to the accident damage to the bumper.
I gave you my thoughts and they were pretty much spot on - Perhaps look that the MT desire/market value argument from the eyes of a MT shopper.
Again I mean no disrespect but I can't understand how you could disagree that MT 997/991 are in high demand and have higher resale value.

PS---> Anyone with a Silver/black 991 Manual Transmission w/metal roof looking to sell please let me know - Thx

:cool:

Look at this way. The (MB) dealer I went to doesn't appear to have the manual 991 sitting on his website anymore so either sold or auctioned(trying to find out). He already gave me a good number for my 997, discounted the 991 and a week later asked what it would take to make a deal so apparently there was even more room. Point is dealers want to move these cars and will sell based on who is walking in / or showing interest at the time regardless of PDK/manual. If the car was PDK - would it still be sitting there and would they be negotiating as aggressively, IDK. Maybe its just a matter of timing and circumstances at that point in time that will dictate the price regardless and how eager the seller is-no?

Use the CarGurus value calculator! This argument will go on forever with absolutely no proof offered. What a seller tells you doesn't count for crap.

First, everyone's taste in music sucks besides mine.

Now for the transmission rant. PDK perform better. Period.

Now stay with me
Bigger engines are faster (you know what I mean - baes, S, GTS, Turbo). Period.

So what is the point of a faster engine with a manual transmission?

Anyway. The two manuals by me are still for sale.

FYI - Received a text this morning. Grand Prix Motors gave me a $38,500 trade is value for my 2007 997S MT w/55K miles. Clean Carfax.
I texted them back to see what the trade in value would be if it were Tiptronic/Auto so should be interesting to see if they give a lower value.
I'm betting it will be at least $2K lower but we'll see.

Certainly mean no offense, but (and I think you know this) - car dealers (even the nice ones) are always going to tell you what you want to hear - if it will in no way result in it actually costing them any money in doing so.

They will absolutely tell you that the Tip / Auto would be worth less.

I've had two 997.1 C4S. About six moths ago I picked up a 2013 C2S Manual. Here's my impression;
Steering: My car has the "power steering plus" which changes the feel dependent on speed. It's super light at parking lot speeds, and it weights up at speed. I like it a lot. It isn't as telepathic as a 997.1. But it's close.
Power: I'm sorry but the 991.1S is WAY faster than the 997.1C4S. Especially in the higher speeds, acceleration from 60-140 is unbelievable. It might be because of the 4S vs 2S, but I was never able to get the rear end loose in the 997s. I drive the 991 with PSM turned off all of the time and it's really lively back there. It's super easy to get little slides going. It's tons more fun to drive than the C4S.
Transmission: The 7th gear is only for highway cruising, economically. The top speed of the car is achieved in 6th. But, by having 7th they shortened up all the lower gears. So acceleration is helped. At Sebring, there are a couple of corners where the 997 didn't have the right ratios. 2nd was too low and 3rd was too high, taking me out of the power band. The 991 doesn't have that problem because of the shorter 3rd. I've instructed in lots of PDK cars and that gearbox is amazing. But I prefer the manual.
Comfort: 991 wins hands down. They mostly fixed the rear end road noise issue, so it's much quieter in normal mode. The longer wheelbase obviously helps the ride.
Looks: Subjective. I like both the 997 and 991 equally outside. Interior, I have the two-tone agate gray and it's stunning. (See pic)

Overall: the 991 is an easier car to live with every day, and it turns into an absolute beast when you push the fun buttons on the console. The NA motor in the .1 sounds amazing (there's a tube from the intake to the rear of the cabin to pipe in noise, that opens when you enter sport mode.) I sold my last 2007 997C4S for $14K less than I paid for the 2013 C2S. For me it was well worth it.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...7ac4ed6bdd.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...64c73a17b8.jpg

Yes. And if you use the Cargurus evaluation tool you will see that manual definitely has more value than Tiptronic. You will also see manual has more value in the base model of some years. Otherwise, no difference. Use the tools!

Very thoughtful comparison. I'm having a little hard time understanding the points about gear ratios though, assuming the ratios i found below are accurate.
2nd was too low and 3rd was too high in the 997 but not the 991 ? Maybe I misunderstood something you said.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...ee94e3d11d.png

Falcondrivr: Thanks for that insight. Love your interior and the sport wheel, that would be on my wish list but perhaps with a darker exterior.
I don't get the math though, $13k diff for a 2007 vs a 2013?? Was the 2007 super low mileage and the 2013 very high mileage? Please explain / show us the math on that, obviously that change up was a no brainer from a $ perspective.

BTW the manual 991 i was looking at was sold, per a text from the salesman. I didn't ask for how much the car sold as i didn't think they would provide that info, and, not sure how long it was at the dealer, but I think less than 30 days. Apparently there was not a mad rush for it during this time period, as i had at least a two to three week window of opportunity to go for it and considering this is a relatively affluent part of the state/country in that there is a P dealer and Bentley dealer right down the road from the MB dealer.

maybe it was a combination of ratio and power band. There are two turns at Sebring, the 3,4,5 complex and 10, where your speed is such that you are at or near redline by the time you track out in 2nd, but if you try in 3rd, you are below the power band at turn in. The 991 has the gearing to stay in the power band in 3rd.

I sold my 2007 C4S, 80,000 miles for $36K. I paid $50K for my 2013 991S, 80,000 miles.

Good info Falcondrivr.
As mentioned I always buy from private party but it was nice opportunity to drive the 991 and if it had the solid metal roof I might have gone for it.
Also dealer trade in value is always subjective and based on how much room they have in the car they want to sell you.

Grand Prix Motors will give me $38.5K for trade in value on my Manual Transmission 2007 997S w/55K miles and that saves me $4K in sales tax.
They quoted me $34K if it was Tiptronic transmission so -$4.5K value.
Love those lines of the 991 :thumbup:

I think it was probably the wider torque band more than the gearing. Thanks for sharing your experience.