snaphappy

Not posing as an expert. Just saying I followed a 997.1 Turbo Cab with Tip through the mountains for about an hour and that car was fast AF. Handle corners well, accelerated out of turns like no one’s business. I’m sure the manual is better, but after trying to keep up with that Turbo I think the Tip is just fine.

Gene_GaTech

It's not the speed, it's the lower level of engagement.

snaphappy

I get what you’re saying. But this guy was having a ton of fun and totally kicking *** in the most challenging corners.

Could he have more fun with a manual or pdk? Sure, I get it. But based on his performance out there I think there’s a possibility that the Tip isn't as bad as everyone claims.

Gene_GaTech

Yep of course he was having fun! He was in a 911 turbo; zero doubt there!!!

ADias

Tip/PDK/Manual, just different interfaces and different skills to get top enjoyment. Some in the manual community seem to have a closed mind for anything different, and always try to put down the other options.

This comes from someone who has and enjoys both.

Doug H

Dude, you are following a turbo cab. That car should be leaving you in the dust . . . bad.

What did you expect? Did you think you could keep up with him because of tiptronic? Also, could be a huge difference in drivers as it sounds like you are very novice and would have trouble keeping paces with someone with a little driver control skills even in a lesser car.

RE: Tiptronic in Turbo v. NA cars

Many, including me, have pointed out that the tiptronic actually seems to work better with the turbo as its gearing seems to hold boost better/longer.

The tiptronic is a power robbing torque converter tranny, but the turbo still has way more power and low end torque than your NA 997. (FWIW, the PDK is not a torque converter transmission with comparable parasitic losses).

I think the general message on here has been that the tiptronic is a performance killer on the normally aspirated cars due to weight and parasitic power losses.

Petza914

A Tip (or PDK) on a turbo keeps the car in boost during gear changes (like in my Cayenne) whereas with a MT, you have to let off the gas to do the shift, which drops the boost and makes you restablish it. A Tip in a Turbo ins't as bad as a Tip in non-turbo because of this. It's still a very lazy transmission that has delays from when you request a gear change, but the Turbo motor and chassis are so capable, it matters less.

snaphappy

Also just found out the fastest car at the rally was a TT Tip. Heavily modified with 600+hp. That thing was a beast. Stayed right at the front with 991 GT3’s and RS’s. The ground pulsed when he passed me.

Going forward I will not think less of the Tip. Now I’m wondering if a good driver with a Turbo Tip could beat an average driver with a Turbo PDK?

ADias

The tip has a locking torque converter and is effectively only working in 1st gear. Driving a tip in a spirited mode requires understanding how it works and taking advantage of it.

I am not propping up a tip as I do not have one or ever had one, but I do think it works well in the right hands.

Petza914

The better driver always trumps the slightly better equipment.

Doug H

Much better explanation. I noticed it gold boost longer/better and just assumed gearing.

This. There is a 2006/07 video floating around of me in a 180 hp Elise behind a 996tt Evo 700 GT on Hoosier R6 tires running exact same lap times at Barber. He would dust me like a freakin rocket ship versus a Yugo in straights, but I would reel him in a get on his bumper in the twisties. He was an nationally certified PCA instructor, but the Evo 700 GT should have been 5 to 10 seconds quicker on R6s.

wjk_glynn

FWIW...

snaphappy

Just saw this, weird timing!! But yeah Tips aren’t garbage. I think the forums have been too harsh on them.

Doug H

Didn't the guy int this turbo video say he absolutely hated the tiptronic in the non-turbo Carrera?

I think the message around here has been pretty consistent that the tiptronic is not good at all in the NA Carreras, but performs well in the turbo for the reasons Petza and I mention above.

No one is saying they are garbage. To the contrary, they are very robust. They just suck the life out of the NA 911 driving experience compared to the same model with a manual.

Doug H

Found a copy. Forgive the quality. It is 13 or 14 years old. 180hp Elise versus 700hp 996tt oin Hoosier R6s. Pretty sure I am Adavn AD08s in this video based on the tire squeal sound on the corners.

Watch how bad 700 hp pulls away from me on the straight after the hair pin at around 1:03.