Test drove 997.2 - question on PDK behavior to you guys
11-10-2019, 06:38 PM
#1
Test drove 997.2 - question on PDK behavior to you guys
Hi guys, Im looking to buy a PDK 60k mile car, 997.2 and on a test drive, I noticed that PDK had trouble engaging from stand still to 1st (felt like that). It was engine revving up a bit, then it clicked. I was driving up an tiny incline into my garage. I also after parking the car smelled "clutch" smell, but I read that it is not possible to smell the clutch in PDK as such and it could have been something else. I have the PPI scheduled on the car as I like it otherwise despite options being rather limited - it is a 997.2 2009 Carrera without PASM/SE. It seems in otherwise good shape with full service history and superb color combo for me that I wanted, so it sort of ticks the right boxes. Yet the PDK bit made me wonder. Its service history shows oil replacement at 50k miles, and software update, so looks like the previous owner did not like something. I asked on PPI to dig into this and will report.
Having said all that, have people experienced the PDK engaging a bit sharply into 1st, or feeling like its not catching on to gear on incline, or any smells of clutch?
The engine was cold when this happened, and the weather outside was also near freezing btw. Even my daily driver 3 series F30 can behave wonky in gearbox when very cold. I dont even care or notice it there as car has very little miles and in good shape. But - here of course I notice and want to ask the knowledgeable guys. I hope that PDK on 997.2 is not its own "IMS" thing as PDK replacements seem to run comparable to engines on 997.1 or something like that cost wise.
Having said all that, have people experienced the PDK engaging a bit sharply into 1st, or feeling like its not catching on to gear on incline, or any smells of clutch?
The engine was cold when this happened, and the weather outside was also near freezing btw. Even my daily driver 3 series F30 can behave wonky in gearbox when very cold. I dont even care or notice it there as car has very little miles and in good shape. But - here of course I notice and want to ask the knowledgeable guys. I hope that PDK on 997.2 is not its own "IMS" thing as PDK replacements seem to run comparable to engines on 997.1 or something like that cost wise.
11-10-2019, 07:03 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
It's possible it still has the original firmware as there are many reports out there of slightly "jerky" behavior in first.
Do a search on PDK shift speed / aggressiveness and after reading you'll see that depending on your preferences you may not want them to change anything.
The early firmware was much more aggressive and engaging (but its possible customers complained and then Porsche softened it up a bit).
My advice is drive the car for a while (particularly using manual shifting, and also with sports & sports plus engaged) to get a better sense of what the gearbox can do, and then decide.
Do a search on PDK shift speed / aggressiveness and after reading you'll see that depending on your preferences you may not want them to change anything.
The early firmware was much more aggressive and engaging (but its possible customers complained and then Porsche softened it up a bit).
My advice is drive the car for a while (particularly using manual shifting, and also with sports & sports plus engaged) to get a better sense of what the gearbox can do, and then decide.
11-10-2019, 07:17 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
The PDK takes a few seconds to engage first gear after backing out of your garage, especially when it's cold. That is normal. Replacing the oil and updating firmware at 50k miles is not uncommon. I had the PDK servicing done at 53k just because it was due for major service at 60k and the car was 10 years old. As for clutch smell (not possible), Porsches have a lot of smells and noises I never experienced before owning one.
11-10-2019, 07:56 PM
#4
Nordschleife Master
Was it a clutch delay or hill assist behavior?
11-10-2019, 08:48 PM
#5
Drifting
If you've never driven a PDK, it will feel odd when going from a full stop to moving again. I think a lot of us have been driving them so long we've forgotten this. This board was full of posts about that when the '09 cars first came out. I think what you're experiencing is normal. When people drive my car for the first time they almost all comment on that. It's not a smooth transition like with a torque converter and it takes a day or two of driving to get used to.
As for the clutch smell, I think a lot of us have forgotten or gotten used to that as well. The schmutz that is sprayed on the undersides of our cars has a peculiar odor to it when the engine is hot and it never really goes away. That's another thing that some people have said about my car after they drive it.
In fact, before I bought my car, I borrowed a friend's 997.1 manual car to try it out. After driving it, I told him I thought his clutch was about to go out because of that smell. He just laughed and told me that's how it always smelled after a long drive.
Probably nothing to worry about on both counts.
As for the clutch smell, I think a lot of us have forgotten or gotten used to that as well. The schmutz that is sprayed on the undersides of our cars has a peculiar odor to it when the engine is hot and it never really goes away. That's another thing that some people have said about my car after they drive it.
In fact, before I bought my car, I borrowed a friend's 997.1 manual car to try it out. After driving it, I told him I thought his clutch was about to go out because of that smell. He just laughed and told me that's how it always smelled after a long drive.
Probably nothing to worry about on both counts.
11-10-2019, 08:56 PM
#6
Nordschleife Master
PDK clutches may be slow to engage when the car is cold. Other than that I have never felt anything other than quick engagement.
No clutch smell either. These clutches are immersed in oil and do not smell. If the car is coated with undercoating or cosmoline that might be the smell.
No clutch smell either. These clutches are immersed in oil and do not smell. If the car is coated with undercoating or cosmoline that might be the smell.
11-10-2019, 09:04 PM
#7
I totally understand how you feel. I was surprised by PDK behavior when the engine is cold. In my experience so far, these cars are not very happy when they are cold. Just take it easy and try not to judge the car until the oil is near 175 degrees. But overall, your experience is normal.
As for the smell, when you got out of the car, is that when you smelled it? And. When you got out of the car, was the engine warm from high revs and a brisk test drive? If yes, then you’re smelling cosmoline. The engine in the 997.2 is coated in that stuff to protect it from corrosion etc. You’ll always smell it after aggressive driving.
As for the smell, when you got out of the car, is that when you smelled it? And. When you got out of the car, was the engine warm from high revs and a brisk test drive? If yes, then you’re smelling cosmoline. The engine in the 997.2 is coated in that stuff to protect it from corrosion etc. You’ll always smell it after aggressive driving.
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11-11-2019, 01:06 AM
#9
Three Wheelin'
Yep, my 2010 turbo with PDK does the exact same thing when cold (e.g. when switching from reverse to drive when backing out of the driveway). Feels like it's slipping and definitely concerned me at first. It goes away when warmed up. Like the others said the smells are normal too, every 911 I've owned smelled like it was burning greasy handprints or something off the exhaust manifold. Par for the course.
11-11-2019, 01:26 AM
#10
When cold as you stated the oil is not cycling yet and clutch engagement is rough. Many things about the PDK are sung marginal until the oil has a chance to circulate. As someone else effectively said ... Warm up is essential.
The Porsche perfume smell does in fact diminish and with 130K miles on my 2010 C4S PDK that smell has not around for quite a while. I kind of miss it.
As for the clutch burning smell ... oddly enough that can be real. If I back into my driveway (an uphill situation with the need to maneuver to avoid dragging the front lip) my clutches slip as required to maintain enough power and still move the car very slowly ... and the clutches specifically do smell. I no longer back into my driveway!!!
Good luck with your PPI. These are, IMHO, great cars.
The Porsche perfume smell does in fact diminish and with 130K miles on my 2010 C4S PDK that smell has not around for quite a while. I kind of miss it.
As for the clutch burning smell ... oddly enough that can be real. If I back into my driveway (an uphill situation with the need to maneuver to avoid dragging the front lip) my clutches slip as required to maintain enough power and still move the car very slowly ... and the clutches specifically do smell. I no longer back into my driveway!!!
Good luck with your PPI. These are, IMHO, great cars.
11-11-2019, 02:27 AM
#11
Nordschleife Master
To the OP, I had the first generation PDK in my -09 C4S but can't say that I had anything like that happening. But then, as others including you have said, cold temperatures seem to be a contributing factor and living in southwest Florida I can't remember getting anywhere near freezing while owning that car. Maybe low 40's on rare occasions in January.
You don't mention sport chrono so I assume the car doesn't have it. If the PPI checks out and you want it, try to negotiate some kind of deal having it installed. You won't get the wart/timer/clock on the dash (lots of names for that thing) but it's worthless whatever you want to call it so a non issue. You get what's important which is sport and sport + mode. PDK without sport chrono is not doing it justice and a rather miserable configuration imo.
You don't mention sport chrono so I assume the car doesn't have it. If the PPI checks out and you want it, try to negotiate some kind of deal having it installed. You won't get the wart/timer/clock on the dash (lots of names for that thing) but it's worthless whatever you want to call it so a non issue. You get what's important which is sport and sport + mode. PDK without sport chrono is not doing it justice and a rather miserable configuration imo.
11-11-2019, 04:09 AM
#12
Racer
Before I had the clutch oil serviced at 60k, my '11 PDK would lag a bit going from reverse to forward. After the service, it was much more as expected. It can be a bit slow to engage when it is cold and first started in the morning. Once warm, it works great. I'd not judge the PDK until it is warmed up a bit.
The fluid change and FW update is pretty standard stuff, so I think your prior owner was just maintaining the vehicle.
The fluid change and FW update is pretty standard stuff, so I think your prior owner was just maintaining the vehicle.
11-11-2019, 04:21 AM
#13
Three Wheelin'
It was most likely due to being cold. The PDK service (fluid) is standard. It should be done, and having evidence of it done at 50k miles is a good thing. If you spend the time to read up on what scheduled maintenance should have been done to your potential car purchase it will help you inform yourself about what to look for and what not. For me, it helped to identify cars that had been serviced correctly. I would think this is a good behavior for any car to be purchased.
11-11-2019, 05:43 AM
#14
Thank you for the nice response guys, what a great community!
Asked PPI to look into this and come back to me. On the car and the gearbox updates availability. Dealer only mentioned that PDK will need a reset probably when I commented on the behavior but that\s only sales comment for now.
Checks out what you said, car had the "big" service due and the gearbox oil was done along with the pan, if I recall (dont have the records infront of me, they were from dealer screen history).
Delay, for sure. Not aware of car having assist, it is a 2009.
This cosmoline thing is totally new to me, what the what.
The engine was 1/3 of operating temperature when I smelled it and I was backing out (I live 3km from dealer, so I went home with the car into my garage to see how it fits into the spot, and I backed into the parking so it was on a reverse). I drove more than 3km as I did a bit of a detour home, but roads were dry but cold, and I didn't want to abuse the car in this weather.
Got it. this is 997.2 and I am not looking at 991s for now. But good to know it is common, as has been consensus here thus far, which is encouraging.
Relevant, thanks!
Thank you. I was worried I didnt describe well enough my experience but the responses have been very good, an there is no ambiguity. As noted, Ill get back on this issue with PPI feedback.
No, I dont mention it as car lacks the sport and sport plus buttons. I will talk to them. This is a ca 1200 USD cost I gather? The car has brakes that need service, so that and the sport plus settings Is what Id like to see in negotiation.
Thanks, appreciate the color and your experience.
So that's the common thread - PDK cars need warm up to judge properly, something I will get into. I will have to find some common servicing things also to cross check versus history on this car or any other potential one, if you have some thread to point me to please do. I have for sure not done this. Having said that, I will keep looking for PDK as finding one in good shape I probably make car a bit more livable in daily traffic situations and wont abuse the clutch that much over long run.
The PDK takes a few seconds to engage first gear after backing out of your garage, especially when it's cold. That is normal. Replacing the oil and updating firmware at 50k miles is not uncommon. I had the PDK servicing done at 53k just because it was due for major service at 60k and the car was 10 years old. As for clutch smell (not possible), Porsches have a lot of smells and noises I never experienced before owning one.
Delay, for sure. Not aware of car having assist, it is a 2009.
PDK clutches may be slow to engage when the car is cold. Other than that I have never felt anything other than quick engagement.
No clutch smell either. These clutches are immersed in oil and do not smell. If the car is coated with undercoating or cosmoline that might be the smell.
No clutch smell either. These clutches are immersed in oil and do not smell. If the car is coated with undercoating or cosmoline that might be the smell.
As for the smell, when you got out of the car, is that when you smelled it? And. When you got out of the car, was the engine warm from high revs and a brisk test drive? If yes, then you’re smelling cosmoline. The engine in the 997.2 is coated in that stuff to protect it from corrosion etc. You’ll always smell it after aggressive driving.
Yep, my 2010 turbo with PDK does the exact same thing when cold (e.g. when switching from reverse to drive when backing out of the driveway). Feels like it's slipping and definitely concerned me at first. It goes away when warmed up. Like the others said the smells are normal too, every 911 I've owned smelled like it was burning greasy handprints or something off the exhaust manifold. Par for the course.
When cold as you stated the oil is not cycling yet and clutch engagement is rough. Many things about the PDK are sung marginal until the oil has a chance to circulate. As someone else effectively said ... Warm up is essential.
The Porsche perfume smell does in fact diminish and with 130K miles on my 2010 C4S PDK that smell has not around for quite a while. I kind of miss it.
As for the clutch burning smell ... oddly enough that can be real. If I back into my driveway (an uphill situation with the need to maneuver to avoid dragging the front lip) my clutches slip as required to maintain enough power and still move the car very slowly ... and the clutches specifically do smell. I no longer back into my driveway!!!
Good luck with your PPI. These are, IMHO, great cars.
The Porsche perfume smell does in fact diminish and with 130K miles on my 2010 C4S PDK that smell has not around for quite a while. I kind of miss it.
As for the clutch burning smell ... oddly enough that can be real. If I back into my driveway (an uphill situation with the need to maneuver to avoid dragging the front lip) my clutches slip as required to maintain enough power and still move the car very slowly ... and the clutches specifically do smell. I no longer back into my driveway!!!
Good luck with your PPI. These are, IMHO, great cars.
Before I had the clutch oil serviced at 60k, my '11 PDK would lag a bit going from reverse to forward. After the service, it was much more as expected. It can be a bit slow to engage when it is cold and first started in the morning. Once warm, it works great. I'd not judge the PDK until it is warmed up a bit.
The fluid change and FW update is pretty standard stuff, so I think your prior owner was just maintaining the vehicle.
The fluid change and FW update is pretty standard stuff, so I think your prior owner was just maintaining the vehicle.
It was most likely due to being cold. The PDK service (fluid) is standard. It should be done, and having evidence of it done at 50k miles is a good thing. If you spend the time to read up on what scheduled maintenance should have been done to your potential car purchase it will help you inform yourself about what to look for and what not. For me, it helped to identify cars that had been serviced correctly. I would think this is a good behavior for any car to be purchased.
11-11-2019, 06:24 AM
#15
Three Wheelin'
Here ya go OP.
https://www.porscheofsanantonio.com/...e-schedule.htm
I've enjoyed the PDK in my GTS for the last 3 years, I'd definitely choose it again for this particular car. Be aware, 2009 model year cars with PDK transmissions have had a higher (observed) incidence of issues with the PDK itself. That is not to say that you should avoid them. Or that you should get worried. Just mentioning to be aware of. I bought a 2009 Cayman S PDK with 90k miles on it, enjoyed it for a year and sold it, I didn't bother with a warranty either - food for thought. These discussions about the gearbox on this forum can quickly spiral out of control, so its best to do your due diligence on all the aspects of ownership and read from as many sources as you can.
If you'll get a PDK car, definitely youll want to go for the addition of the Sport/Sport+ functionality, it makes the gearbox shift much more quickly, which is a must. I added mine after the fact at the dealer, money well spent! Also, having a Porsche Sport Design steering wheel with paddles moves the experience on. Those would be must haves in my book, luckily something you can do after buying on both counts.
https://www.porscheofsanantonio.com/...e-schedule.htm
I've enjoyed the PDK in my GTS for the last 3 years, I'd definitely choose it again for this particular car. Be aware, 2009 model year cars with PDK transmissions have had a higher (observed) incidence of issues with the PDK itself. That is not to say that you should avoid them. Or that you should get worried. Just mentioning to be aware of. I bought a 2009 Cayman S PDK with 90k miles on it, enjoyed it for a year and sold it, I didn't bother with a warranty either - food for thought. These discussions about the gearbox on this forum can quickly spiral out of control, so its best to do your due diligence on all the aspects of ownership and read from as many sources as you can.
If you'll get a PDK car, definitely youll want to go for the addition of the Sport/Sport+ functionality, it makes the gearbox shift much more quickly, which is a must. I added mine after the fact at the dealer, money well spent! Also, having a Porsche Sport Design steering wheel with paddles moves the experience on. Those would be must haves in my book, luckily something you can do after buying on both counts.