Bruce In Philly

2009 C2S 138K miles, MT

Why doesn't anyone replace gear 1, 2 & 3 ? I feel these gears are way way too long. You can get more torque with lower gearing and have way more fun keeping your engine up in the revs. As these cars are configured from the factory, you can put them in 2nd and drive around all day. That is no fun.

This is the number one thing I really dislike about my Porsche. Seriously, it bugs me every time I drive it.

Everyone wants to chip their car.... turbo it...intake it... exhaust it.. wave a magic camshaft over it reciting lines from Steve McQueen. To me, this is not just a waste of money, but you could lessen the life of the engine. Gears appear cheap and easy. (I always liked cheap and easy... lotsa stories here.)

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Vethen

For daily street driving, I can certainly see where you’re coming from. Gearing seems even worse on newer models these days too, I recall loving the gearing if my 997.1 over my old 981. I remember hearing somewhere that the gear ratios are designed to allow the driving to be shifting between 3rd and 4th mainly on the track, to allow the driver to avoid shifting diagonally as much as possible.

cwheeler

Agree with the above. Most of my track experience says that 3-5 is used. Mostly 3-4. And honestly, some tracks, I could stay in third until I learned the lines and got more aggressive. And, because of the nature of Porsche, race/track inspired, I would hope that's what they are thinking.

More over, for "the time" the 911 0-60 time was pretty fast. Changing those gears would have really decreased that time, when it wasn't necessary. The current horsepower wars change that necessity.....

Also, again with a track mindset, changing gears is slow, and the engine is torquey enough to keep you at pace, in the proper power curve and shifting pattern. (For the time)

Cw

ADias

The PDK 1-6 is pretty close to close ratioed... Same with the 6 speed manual.

MexicoBlueTurboS

Any chance this gearing was part of an attempt to meet/maintain mileage standards ?

Bruce In Philly

Maybe... gotta look at the regs... most are PDK so maybe the MT is averaged in.

I think it has more to do with getting favorable stats in the motoring press. My old 2000 Boxster S, at redline, did 63 MPH in 2nd gear. I always thought this is a clear indication that Porsche did not want a third shift in a drag race for magazine stat tables. My 2009 C2S is even higher (gotta go out this am test redline in 2nd). I just don't know why. It is a real disappointment.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

f911

So true(!)

It may sound funny. I drive day by day with tip s, the transmission system is slower than the PDK and older and obviously different from the manual transmission system (unlike any 2 pedals that exist in the world). But still, I always but always drive in M ​​mode, chrono sport is on, no limit of rev, and there is a possibility of getting caught high in RPM, tends to always start in first gear (although tip s is the second gear).
Nothing more enjoyable than that! And there is no need for any further improvement. Both on the street and on the track.
Of course I miss the heel and toe which is the best human improvement that anyone who likes to drive can have - but sometimes there is a different order of priorities in life.

Regarding the exhaust system. Share you at this point, I have a Cargraphic x-pipe combined with FD and the sound is just addictive. Cargraphic's exhaust is simply amazing !!!

quickxotica

Bruce, I agree with you that the gearing is longer than ideal, but by comparison I once owned a 2007 Cayman S and it felt way more hobbled by its over-long gearing. When I moved from that to a 996mkII and then to a 997.2 C2S, both felt better geared (presumably because their mid-range torque is able to make better sense of the ratios. 3rd gear (on the track) tops out at a hair over 100 mph in all three cars I believe. Obviously, for street driving in the U.S. that is ludicrous. Even from a fuel-economy standpoint, you'll still have three gears to go up from there so...why?

Anyway, Guard Transmission could build you a solution (a R&P or the actual drive gears themselves) but I remember reading they discontinued it due to lack of customer interest. I guess people are scared of doing transmission mods on a valuable street/luxury Carerra.

Sure would be fun though. Imagine if 3rd gear topped out at 80!

GoldenGorilla

You're not the only one thinking this.

2nd @ 50 and 3rd @ 80 would be much better gearing for road driving.

sandwedge

So on the 997.2, is the manual geared the same as the PDK? Based on all kinds of sources I've read, mechanically, both are the same transmissions. The only difference being the PDK transformation and all that goes along with it, none of it affecting the gearing. Mine is PDK and I'm in sport plus manual mode almost at all times. The OP's complaint never entered my mind but I'll pay closer attention going forward.

ADias

The 997 manual has nothing to do with the PDK (not the same situation as in the 991). But yes, the ratios on the 997 6-speed are close to the ratios on the lower 6 speeds in the PDK.


PDK ratios:

quickxotica

How this for a dream swap? Remove stock 5th gear, set it aside for posterity, then slide stock 4th gear to 5th position in the stack, likewise 3rd to 4th, and then insert a new custom 3rd in a ratio between stock 2nd & 3rd. No change to 1st, 2nd, or 6th. With that one extra gear you'd have yourself a close-ratio box where it matters (between 40-100 mph), and still have the stock 6th gear for highway cruising. Voila!

Bruce In Philly

Gettin' close. But I think 2nd is way too long. For me, blasting around local roads should be a 2nd and 3rd gear... sometimes 4th rowing fest.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

qikqbn

on the street ... no doubt having shorter gears is more fun! I have a similar situation between my 997.1 and 987.1 and the taller gearing in the 987 takes a bit of the fun out. Still a great car, but noticeable in some situations. Part of the fun of these cars is being in the meat of the torque and power band and being able to zing it to redline over and over. When you have tall gearing and hitting close to 80 mph in 2nd gear it becomes more of a take me to jail card and look over your shoulder every time you want to do it. In my 986 Boxster and 997.1 C4S 2nd gear redline is closer to 65 mph. You can get to 65 mph quicker and enjoy that redline more often at those speeds. 2nd gear redline in 987 about 75-80 mph and it takes a tick longer to reach redline so you have to have more space clear around you to reach that speed.

I was thinking about redlines in 997.1 vs 997.2. Although the gearing may be similar it is the higher redlines that are pushing torque curves higher and also adding to the mph before redline.

997.1 2nd gear redlines at 7200 rpm at about 65 mph.

997.2 2nd gear redlines at 7400 rpm and closer to 75 mph.

987.1 2nd gear redlines at 7200 and closer to 75-80 mph.

Imagine GT3 redlines at closer to 8500-9000 rpm, but they have shorter gearing to compensate... so 8500 in a GT3 may still only be 70-75 mph.

either way... I agree with you Bruce. To me 60-65mph seems plenty fast for 2nd gear redline. anything more is taking a bit of the fun out of the whole purpose of manual shifting cars. Jmho...

Bruce In Philly

75 MPH in 2nd Gear!!!! Are all of you reading this... or experiencing this?. Porsche has succeeded!!!! They have created a single gear car.

Peace
Bruce in Philly