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This is very interesting - I just put 4 new PS4S on my car last Friday - first ride wasn't impressed. Chalked it up to different, new, changed tire pressures, etc... I'll go put some miles on them this weekend (not 500)after adjusting the pressures down to my liking and see if they change.
Tire pressure is as important, if not more important, than brand, all things being equal (size, speed rating, etc.). Tire places almost always inflate tires to what it says on the door jam or higher. I once had a tire shop put 60psi (max load) in my Goodyear's on my 4Runner because that was the what the tech read on the sidewall. It road like I had granite tires until I could get home and let almost 25psi out of each the tire.
Also, adjust your tire pressure AFTER you've driven the car and got the tires up to temp. Depending on your climate and your driving habits, you could easily add 4-6psi per tire from sitting in a cool garage to out driving it on warm streets, which will make your car ride stiffer and hamper ideal traction.
I personally love my PS4S's. My car is bone stock with the exception of the DSC sport controller. The DSC coupled with my PS4S tires, makes my car handle like it is on rails. I don't track my car, but my tires have been able to handle everything I've thrown at them. With that said, I'm sure the other major brands make great tires for these cars too.
For those that don't like a slightly softer sidewall, have you ever had to deal with a bent rim(s)? Our roads are not great here in CO, especially during pothole season (now). I think my Michelin's and proper tire inflation have saved me a trip to the wheel shop more than once.
They need to be scrubbed off a bit as people above have mentioned but I think they also run better at lower pressures. I lost my rear in the first week running the pressures on the door taking an abandoned off ramp too hot. Once they were scrubbed off a bit, the same situation is no problem.
I posted this elsewhere but I run GT3 door card pressures because I am on GT3 wheels. Same tires on Lobster Forks and they were not as good. I experimented with pressures from the 29/33 range up to the 37/44 recommended C2S pressure on the lobsters. It cannot just be the difference in wheels. I think it is more the difference in pressure. I think the recommended pressures are clearly too high for newer tires. compounds have evolved in the last 15 years since that sticker was put on my car.
The indie I was going to was setting my pressures to the C2S door sticker and I would notice immediately something was off when leaving. They did this on 3 services even when I asked them to set things at 29/33.
I will set them a little higher for long trips, something like 31/35, so not really significant. I have NOT tracked these tires or my C2S but I do love the PS4S in the canyons!!
As everyone else has said, these tires are very sensitive to pressure.
When I first had them installed they were undriveable but that is because they were overinflated when installed. I have a NB car on 18s and when I dropped them to about 5 psi less than the door placard (32f/37r) they were great.
On the track they are also very good for a street tire. I start with 30f/28r cold and end up with about 38f/38r hot. I had a track day this week and did some sessions on a wet/drying track and I was blown away by the grip.
As everyone else has said, these tires are very sensitive to pressure.
When I first had them installed they were undriveable but that is because they were overinflated when installed. I have a NB car on 18s and when I dropped them to about 5 psi less than the door placard (32f/37r) they were great.
On the track they are also very good for a street tire. I start with 30f/28r cold and end up with about 38f/38r hot. I had a track day this week and did some sessions on a wet/drying track and I was blown away by the grip.
I agree with most of what you said except the R/F pressure differential. On a stock 997 there should be a 4PSI difference. On track you should be close to 34/38 (hot).
Has anyone tried the Conti's? I have become a fan of Continental's lately. My MDX came with them and they are very grippy in dry and wet. It has become hard to get the Michelin's at Costco (and they lowered their service level recently) so I started buying Conti's for the other cars also. I will need new tires by the next oil change if not sooner. Conti's have softer sidewalls also.
I had Contis on my 718. They were great on road and track. Very progressive. However they seemed to be a little noisy. Overall very pleased with them.
Originally Posted by BucketList
Has anyone tried the Conti's? I have become a fan of Continental's lately. My MDX came with them and they are very grippy in dry and wet. It has become hard to get the Michelin's at Costco (and they lowered their service level recently) so I started buying Conti's for the other cars also. I will need new tires by the next oil change if not sooner. Conti's have softer sidewalls also.
I'm glad that some owners feel the same way about these tires. I, too, feel the sidewalls are too weak for good handling. When I was on the track with them I remember one incidence that was a pucker up moment. I was at the end of a long straight at about 140 MPH heading into the banked turn and all of a sudden the car shifted. It didn't lose traction-it felt like the whole body shifted to the outside. The way is handled was not the way a 911 should go through a turn.
Mine were doing that big time on the high speed sweepers. Throughout the day my upper body got a work out trying to keep the car on line. I'm out of ideas so next week it goes back to the tire shop. Installation was with Hunter equipment including road force balancing. But I want to verify lateral runout. More later.
My 2c: PS4s are fine at street speeds (once broken-in), but at track speeds & side loads they feel nervous and not fun. When I mentioned this to one of the instructors who works for my local track (Sonoma/Sears Pt), he said it's due to their combination of a sticky tread with soft sidewalls. Sounds plausible, but it's a dark art. In any case, I think I'll consider this a "street-only" tire from now on and look elsewhere for trackdays.
Interesting thread. I had stuck with PS2's initially, but switched to Hancook's (mainly because they were literally 1/2 price) about 8 years ago. With all the endless positive reviews I was really excited to get the PS4S, which I did last week. I too was 'underwhelmed', maybe because I was expecting too much. At the same time the installer inflated to 'full load' which is 36 front and 44 back.
I had to reset the TPMS to partial load, and then took air out to 33 front 39 rear today, and the ride is much better. It is 'smooth', so that soapy description is accurate (personally, I actually like it). The problem is that we hit 100F today, and the tires were hitting 36-37 front and 44 rears after driving home. 'Cold' here is still too warm, but I think I will try to get it to 31/37 in early am.
Interestingly I also lost 2 MPG average going back and forth to work (20 miles each way), as I did not expect that.
Interesting thread. I had stuck with PS2's initially, but switched to Hancook's (mainly because they were literally 1/2 price) about 8 years ago. With all the endless positive reviews I was really excited to get the PS4S, which I did last week. I too was 'underwhelmed', maybe because I was expecting too much. At the same time the installer inflated to 'full load' which is 36 front and 44 back.
I had to reset the TPMS to partial load, and then took air out to 33 front 39 rear today, and the ride is much better. It is 'smooth', so that soapy description is accurate (personally, I actually like it). The problem is that we hit 100F today, and the tires were hitting 36-37 front and 44 rears after driving home. 'Cold' here is still too warm, but I think I will try to get it to 31/37 in early am.
Interestingly I also lost 2 MPG average going back and forth to work (20 miles each way), as I did not expect that.
On 100F weather, and if when you drive you try to put heat on the tires, try cold 29/33PSI. These are the GT3 sticker pressures for a car that weighs about the same (add an extra PSI if your car is heavy.
Day 3 on the new rear MP4S tires. At around mile 1400 they started feeling a bit better. But they picked up a rhythmic rumble that was intermittent. And I still don't trust them. I'm driving slower. We've got another several hundred miles between tomorrow and Sunday. Once home I'll check for concentricity and side to side runout. Then pull the wheels and look for compacted dirt on the hubs. Any other ideas? The step after this will be going back to the tire shop.
Hopefully over the next two days the problems will auto resolve??? But I still feel the need to measure and verify.
I contacted Tirerack about returning my PS4S tires because I'm 95% certain that they are the cause of the poor handling. They do have a 60 day "Buy and Try" satisfaction guarantee but this is a Michelin program and it requires the purchase of a different tire from their line. I filled the tires to their recommended pressure of 36/44 F/R (I was running 35/39) but nothing changed. I'm taking the car to the dealer on Tuesday to have them check for any obvious issues like bad alignment, loose suspension parts, etc. My gut feel at this point is that the tire is designed for grand touring duty like what a 911 turbo is designed for.
I contacted Tirerack about returning my PS4S tires because I'm 95% certain that they are the cause of the poor handling. They do have a 60 day "Buy and Try" satisfaction guarantee but this is a Michelin program and it requires the purchase of a different tire from their line. I filled the tires to their recommended pressure of 36/44 F/R (I was running 35/39) but nothing changed. I'm taking the car to the dealer on Tuesday to have them check for any obvious issues like bad alignment, loose suspension parts, etc. My gut feel at this point is that the tire is designed for grand touring duty like what a 911 turbo is designed for.
My first set was wonderful. This set? Well ... I made no changes to my car other than installing the new rears. And like a switch was flipped, my wonderful car turned into a POS. It's hard to point to suspension or inflation or anything other than the only thing that is different ... The tires.
I am wondering if they have had a production problem recently.
Or alternatively, perhaps these tires don't play nicely if you don't refresh all four at the same time. But I don't buy that idea.
As far as grand touring, we've had a combination of ... almost 500 miles freeway on day 1, almost 500 miles of mountain twisties and high desert high speed runs on day 2, 370 miles of freeway to forest roads and more on day 3, and today will be pure twisties. If at least some part of that isn't grand touring, what can I say? Day 1 through most of day 3 were pure Hell throughout all conditions. Lines had to be determined with a foot to spare while the car opted to dart around with a mind of its own. The last not quite 100 miles were suspiciously OK. Or I've adapted. The rhythmic rumble is not soothing. We'll see what the next two days bring.
Note: Over the years Michelin tires have made improvements in a number of my cars. This is the first problem I've ever seen. I still believe in the brand. There's an answer to this somewhere. Any company can suffer QA issues.
Also, previously I noted an improvement at around mile 1400. This should have been 1300. And this report of improvement still remains nebulous.
My thanks to those who have been sharing their recent PS4S experiences. I've been experimenting with different pressures over the past few days. I've now got only 250 miles on the tires, but the rhythmic resonance has gone away, particularly at 33/39 inflation. I haven't driven spiritedly yet so I can't comment on the handling, but the freeway experience is much better.
05-13-2021, 02:22 PM
