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Considering 997.1 X51-can someone compare to 991 GTS?

 
Old 05-15-2019, 02:37 PM
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Kg11
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Default Considering 997.1 X51-can someone compare to 991 GTS?

Shopping for a car for what seems like forever, but I finally have it narrowed down. There is a mid-mileage 2015 GTS manual close to me for $84, and it is sweet, but very large in size.

I have also found a 997.1 X51 C2S, which is in great shape, but needs some stuff. It is priced at $52k and has the same mileage (35,000) as the GTS. I liked the 997 on the test drive, as it didn't feel too "down on power" compared to the GTS, and certainly was a looker with the Aerokit, although I would prefer a ducktail. What I didn't like is the suspension: terrible. Underdamped, tons of body roll; it just felt shoddy. I have driven mid-mile 997.2 and this was crap in comparison. The owner said the suspension is not going bad: it just wasn't very good to start with (he also has a 2017 with the Sport PASM, which he said makes this car feel like it is 50 years old).

Say I were to spend some money on the C2S: upgrade the suspension and exhaust (probably $8k or so), and perhaps put on a sport duck rear end. How would it stack up against the GTS then? I will be into the 997 for around $65k, vs $85k for a GTS that is nearly a decade newer. But, both are sound cars and fun.

The X51 is a nice setup, for sure. This one had PCCB's as well.

I find myself drawn to the 997, but I don't want to be totally bummed out about the handling compared to a modern car. The engine note was great, the body style is classic, and with that Aeroklit, looks much like an early 997 GT3. It definitely could use an exhaust compared to the GTS: that one had sport exhaust and the rear muffler delete, with a glorious sound.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:03 PM
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Very Interesting you thought handling was ďcrapĒ, especially the 997.2 since suspension was upgraded over the 997.1 - I just put the DSC module in my 997.2 yesterday - itís also available for the 997.1. Itís a simple plug and play that really transforms the cars handling in every way - thereís lots of threads pertaining to the dsc module you can read up on - itís a great place to start as itís very cost effective relative to upgrading suspension components - the 991 is a very different car, one that I would probably enjoy more since I like comfort/bigger vs more raw feel - great problem to have since both era cars are both fantastic in their own unique way - good luck ! If you love the 997 era you can certainly dial in the suspension to your liking - Iím sure some can offer more Insight here, curious - were the tires worn on either car?
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Redhot2474 View Post
Very Interesting you thought handling was “crap”, especially the 997.2 since suspension was upgraded over the 997.1 - I just put the DSC module in my 997.2 yesterday - it’s also available for the 997.1. It’s a simple plug and play that really transforms the cars handling in every way - there’s lots of threads pertaining to the dsc module you can read up on - it’s a great place to start as it’s very cost effective relative to upgrading suspension components - the 991 is a very different car, one that I would probably enjoy more since I like comfort/bigger vs more raw feel - great problem to have since both era cars are both fantastic in their own unique way - good luck ! If you love the 997 era you can certainly dial in the suspension to your liking - I’m sure some can offer more Insight here, curious - were the tires worn on either car?
Meant to say the 997.1 felt like crap compared to the 997.2 Sport suspension on my buddies' GTS. That was a firm but responsive ride.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:49 PM
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At $65k all in... I'd be looking for a 997.2 GTS (2011-2012). You might be buying a 997.2 GTS with 50-60k miles on it.. but a 50-60k mile 997.2 GTS is not any worse than a 35k mile 997.1 X51 C2S assuming equal care and maintenance. One the one hand you get a car with a few miles more, but also one that is years younger.
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:47 PM
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I have a 997.1 C4S x51 6sp and I absolutely love it!
I also have a 991.2 GT3 6sp, which of course is better, but on anywhere but a track, the difference isnít as big as you might think.

The 997ís compact dimensions and very analog feel (compared to the 991) are wonderful and will always be special.
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:58 PM
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alexb76
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Originally Posted by 997gr8 View Post
I have a 997.1 C4S x51 6sp and I absolutely love it!
I also have a 991.2 GT3 6sp, which of course is better, but on anywhere but a track, the difference isnít as big as you might think.

The 997ís compact dimensions and very analog feel (compared to the 991) are wonderful and will always be special.
What he said!

997 in any flavor is a much more analog feel vs. 991... it's smaller, more raw, more rear-biases, less electronic nannies and more true to form. 991 however is more comfortable, better electronics, larger, and probably a better overall daily car. So, pick what's priority for you, raw feel vs. more comfort features and go from there.

PS. I am more and more worried about 991 electronics, per Nick Murray's videos of BOTH of his 991 and 991.2 developing major flaw with electronics making them undriveable, so much so that Porsche took BOTH cars back!
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:21 PM
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Jeremy Hazeltine
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Somewhat off topic........but... does anyone know all the x51 package included? I see a lot of mention of parts claiming to be x51 parts
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:27 PM
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997gr8
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Carbon fibre air box (looks very special indeed)
Intake manifold in aluminum (with some sort of flap arrangement)
Sump
Sports exhaust
Some modification to the valves (not sure what)
Machined and polished intake ports

i think thatís all for the 997.1
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:58 PM
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997.1 X51 includes:

Cylinder heads with flow-optimized intake and exhaust ports
Intake Manifold & Throttle Body - Increases inlet size from 76 mm to 82 mm
X51 Headers - larger cross-section and optimized flow behavior
Carbon Fiber Airbox with two intake channels
Modified maps for the DME control unit
Sport Exhaust with Chrome Tips & Dash Switch - (Optional)
Third Radiator Kit (for manual transmission cars)
Increased Engine Speed
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Old 05-16-2019, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by 997gr8 View Post
I have a 997.1 C4S x51 6sp and I absolutely love it!
I also have a 991.2 GT3 6sp, which of course is better, but on anywhere but a track, the difference isnít as big as you might think.

The 997ís compact dimensions and very analog feel (compared to the 991) are wonderful and will always be special.
I'm in this camp!
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by 997gr8 View Post
I have a 997.1 C4S x51 6sp and I absolutely love it!
I also have a 991.2 GT3 6sp, which of course is better, but on anywhere but a track, the difference isnít as big as you might think.

The 997ís compact dimensions and very analog feel (compared to the 991) are wonderful and will always be special.
997.2 is the epitome of the classic 911. I feel they drifted too far away from the original 911 design with the 991.

I am also not in favor with the 3.0 liter engines by a 4x margin that I am enthralled with what might be the difference between the 3.8 and 4.0.

In the year I waited for my car to come available, there were several Mexico Blue 991s but the design and engine displacement always stopped me.

I wouldn't change a thing. 997.2 forever.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:12 PM
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I am quite convinced that in years to come, the 997 will be recognized for what it really is - the last generation of 911, that still stayed true to the original recipe.

I like my 991 GT3, but not a day goes by that I donít wish it was a 997 GT3 instead!

My 997 C4S is not a daily, it never was and has never been used in rain etc. In-fact I have never been anywhere in it, it is used solely for driving pleasure. Between May and November, 2-4 times a week, I start it up, trundle down through the village until the oil temperature comes up and then I drive it as fast and smooth as I dare. The handling is truly sublime, the grip levels are astonishing and brakes are awe inspiring. The engine sings through the last 2000 rpm to the redline and thatís where you really experience the thrill of driving.
I work from home and thatís my stress relief - sometimes 40 mins, sometimes 1 hour.
I add about 1000 miles per year, and love detailing it and standing back and admiring the purity of the design - itís soooooo 911.

The 997.1 has the added bonus (for me) of being simple enough (relative to the 991) that various maintenance tasks can be completed at home (a lift is a huge enabler).

My friends are always amazed at the performance and handling, they expect the GT3 to be night and day better, but itís not (at least, not on country roads).

To me, the 991 simply isnít as Ďspecialí, and the 997 is irreplaceable (except with another 997, preferably a GT3).
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:53 PM
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I just added a DSC to my 997.1 PASM (with the accelerometer) - made a huge difference! As others have said on this forum, it takes the suspension characteristic from unmanageable to amazing.
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Old 05-16-2019, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Fined View Post
At $65k all in... I'd be looking for a 997.2 GTS (2011-2012). You might be buying a 997.2 GTS with 50-60k miles on it.. but a 50-60k mile 997.2 GTS is not any worse than a 35k mile 997.1 X51 C2S assuming equal care and maintenance. One the one hand you get a car with a few miles more, but also one that is years younger.
Or for even less than $65K, a lower mile 997.2 S which has the same power as an X51 997.1.

If I was going to spend $85K it would be on a 997 GT3 assuming you can do without a back seat.
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by MexicoBlueTurboS View Post
997.2 is the epitome of the classic 911. I feel they drifted too far away from the original 911 design with the 991.

I am also not in favor with the 3.0 liter engines by a 4x margin that I am enthralled with what might be the difference between the 3.8 and 4.0.

In the year I waited for my car to come available, there were several Mexico Blue 991s but the design and engine displacement always stopped me.

I wouldn't change a thing. 997.2 forever.
I've been toying with the idea of upgrading from my 997.1 to a 991.1 - I think I disagree with you on the 991. It definitely still holds true to the 911 design (to me), far more than the 996. Even though the 991 is slightly bigger. headlights still look correct (though a little bit more oval than round), still has a good shape, I LOVE the rear lights they use - and the GT models in my opinion look exactly how a 911 should. oh and they're lighter than a 997. "bigger" I think is relative. the actual dimensions show that it's BARELY bigger than a 997, and mostly in the wheelbase which really just adds to the stability.
Quick pull from Wikipedia (totally citing it as a source ) :
------------------997 dimensions---------991 dimensions
Length: --------174.2–177.0 in---------176.8 -178.9 in
Width: ------------71.2–72.9 in-----------71.2 - 72.9 in
Height: -----------50.0–52.2 in-----------50.0 - 51.3 in
Wheelbase: ------92.5–92.9 in-----------96.5 - 96.7 in
I do agree with your point on the 3.0 turbo'd flat six for the .2 variety. should have just left them NA. however, with a simple tune an S can nearly match a stock "Turbo" model.

I had considered a 996 turbo due to price vs performance value (pretty much can't beat it), but its not a 911 to me, and never will be. I'd have to change the front to look like a 911 - still don't know what Porsche was thinking when they did the runny egg design, then updated it to that other weird look. The cost to do a correct 997 front end conversion drives it into 997 turbo price range, so... yeah. also the 996 interior is awful in my opinion as well.

Last edited by Milo2361; 05-16-2019 at 11:28 PM.
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