Brake sensors & pad dampers ?
05-09-2019, 08:58 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Brake sensors & pad dampers ?
Whats the skinny on: (read several brake diy's already, but conflicting info. - kind of want to do it Sat but dont have dampeners)
1) brake sensors - leave them out unless you cant visually inspect your pads while detailing your wheels.
2) pad dampeners - reuse? squeek? replace? might pull out the piston?
'05 997.1 63xxx miles, Southeast USA.
Thanks.
1) brake sensors - leave them out unless you cant visually inspect your pads while detailing your wheels.
2) pad dampeners - reuse? squeek? replace? might pull out the piston?
'05 997.1 63xxx miles, Southeast USA.
Thanks.
05-10-2019, 01:11 PM
#2
It's brakes, standard stuff - rotors, pads, sensors, and possible squealing.
For the sensors it's a matter of preference. Either install them or don't. If you track the car with frequent pad changes or want to avoid buying sensors every time you change pads, you can bypass the sensors. You are then responsible for manually checking pad thickness. On the other hand if you want a dash light to come on when your pads are low, enjoy paying for new sensors when they are worn through, or don't really want to bother manually checking wear levels from time to time, install them. The car will tell you when you wear through the sensor breaking the circuit. To bypass the sensors cut the old harness and solder/shrink-wrap the wires together or tie good uninstalled sensors back against the wire harness using tie wraps. This tricks the car into thinking the sensors are "good" while they are not really installed. I like to bypass the sensors since I DIY all my brake changes.
Pad dampers are for noise reduction. Noise reduction is good. How you reduce pad noise is also a matter of preference. The OEM dampers work well but can be a pain to remove when changing pads, the caliper needs to come off. For tracking with frequent pad changes this means more work. The spider style dampers in front are pretty easy to remove. The plate style with two pegs in the rear can sometimes seize inside the caliper piston external cavity. Then changing them is a problem. Be sure the use caliper grease on the rear o-rings, future you will thank present you for avoiding a seized damper in the caliper.
New OEM dampers can be expensive especially with upgraded 6-piston front calipers. OEM dampers can also be reused, they are essentially just shim stock with and adhesive backing. They just need to be cleaned up and the adhesive backing reapplied. Clean them up with brake cleaner removing all the old adhesive and brake dust. Buy a single 12" x 12" sheet of 3M adhesive 467MP (2.3mils thick) or 468MP (6.5mils thick) from someplace online like DigiKey for about $5 plus shipping. You'll pay more for shipping honestly. This is the exact same adhesive tape on the OEM dampers. Then apply one side to the damper and trace cut the outline with a razor blade. I went this route and saved about $150 in dampers. Total time was about an extra hour of work.
Or just toss the OEM dampers and use normal anti-squeal from the local auto parts applied to the backs of the pads prior to install. There is nothing magical about the OEM dampers. Traditional anti-squeal works well too.
Or skip the noise reduction countermeasures entirely. Most of the higher quality brake pads have an integrated noise dampening backing. It might be enough for your use case.
For the sensors it's a matter of preference. Either install them or don't. If you track the car with frequent pad changes or want to avoid buying sensors every time you change pads, you can bypass the sensors. You are then responsible for manually checking pad thickness. On the other hand if you want a dash light to come on when your pads are low, enjoy paying for new sensors when they are worn through, or don't really want to bother manually checking wear levels from time to time, install them. The car will tell you when you wear through the sensor breaking the circuit. To bypass the sensors cut the old harness and solder/shrink-wrap the wires together or tie good uninstalled sensors back against the wire harness using tie wraps. This tricks the car into thinking the sensors are "good" while they are not really installed. I like to bypass the sensors since I DIY all my brake changes.
Pad dampers are for noise reduction. Noise reduction is good. How you reduce pad noise is also a matter of preference. The OEM dampers work well but can be a pain to remove when changing pads, the caliper needs to come off. For tracking with frequent pad changes this means more work. The spider style dampers in front are pretty easy to remove. The plate style with two pegs in the rear can sometimes seize inside the caliper piston external cavity. Then changing them is a problem. Be sure the use caliper grease on the rear o-rings, future you will thank present you for avoiding a seized damper in the caliper.
New OEM dampers can be expensive especially with upgraded 6-piston front calipers. OEM dampers can also be reused, they are essentially just shim stock with and adhesive backing. They just need to be cleaned up and the adhesive backing reapplied. Clean them up with brake cleaner removing all the old adhesive and brake dust. Buy a single 12" x 12" sheet of 3M adhesive 467MP (2.3mils thick) or 468MP (6.5mils thick) from someplace online like DigiKey for about $5 plus shipping. You'll pay more for shipping honestly. This is the exact same adhesive tape on the OEM dampers. Then apply one side to the damper and trace cut the outline with a razor blade. I went this route and saved about $150 in dampers. Total time was about an extra hour of work.
Or just toss the OEM dampers and use normal anti-squeal from the local auto parts applied to the backs of the pads prior to install. There is nothing magical about the OEM dampers. Traditional anti-squeal works well too.
Or skip the noise reduction countermeasures entirely. Most of the higher quality brake pads have an integrated noise dampening backing. It might be enough for your use case.
05-10-2019, 01:18 PM
#3
If the replacement pads don't come with dampers, reuse. Sensors depend on whether you are gonna look or not. I tied mine off because I frequently swap between street and track pads.
05-10-2019, 02:19 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
What you fear happened to me when I replaced my front brakes/rotors earlier this year => the piston popped out when I tried to wedge the dampener out.
Mine's a 2005 car, and in the 2 brake changes that were already done on the car, neither changed the dampener, so it just seized!
I then had to be very careful in putting the piston back so no dust ever got into the cylinder, and by then enough fluid had escaped and air got into the system.
Luckily I was able to use my Motive bleeder to get all the air out. That said, I do want to rebuild the calipers at some point - just for some closure, and it will be a chance to paint them a different colour
My takeaway is this => If the dampener doesn't come off easily when you pry it with a butter knife with light force, just leave it in there - not the end of the world.
If your sensors did not trip the wear-warning light, then you can reuse them. If you did get a warning, then the sensors are done and you'll have to replace them.
Mine's a 2005 car, and in the 2 brake changes that were already done on the car, neither changed the dampener, so it just seized!
I then had to be very careful in putting the piston back so no dust ever got into the cylinder, and by then enough fluid had escaped and air got into the system.
Luckily I was able to use my Motive bleeder to get all the air out. That said, I do want to rebuild the calipers at some point - just for some closure, and it will be a chance to paint them a different colour
My takeaway is this => If the dampener doesn't come off easily when you pry it with a butter knife with light force, just leave it in there - not the end of the world.
If your sensors did not trip the wear-warning light, then you can reuse them. If you did get a warning, then the sensors are done and you'll have to replace them.
05-10-2019, 02:22 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for the great explanation and tips.
Bought dampers and rotor screws from Suncoast.
Think I will short the existing sensors and just visually check the pads when I detail the wheels every couple of months.
Was planning on doing this tomorrow, but will have to wait 'til next weekend for parts.
Cheers!
Bought dampers and rotor screws from Suncoast.
Think I will short the existing sensors and just visually check the pads when I detail the wheels every couple of months.
Was planning on doing this tomorrow, but will have to wait 'til next weekend for parts.
Cheers!
05-10-2019, 03:24 PM
#7
Brake Sensors:
Buying new sensors when they go bad will probably cost about $60 per sensor.
Typically, you can reuse your brake sensors (even if they trip the brake sensor light) and replacing isn't necessary even if they are bad. If you keep an eye out on your brakes often enough, you can get by without the sensors when they go bad.
If you decide not to use them, just cut off the sensor head and twist the wire leads together to get rid of that pesky brake light you'll get. Then use electrical tape to isolate the now coupled wires and tuck the wires away neatly and securely.
PAD Dampers:
The damper pucks cost about $60 per wheel too as I remember. These can be a real PIA to get out, especially on northern cars where the salt/snow/rain can get them rusted and stuck in there.
In some cases, getting them out could risk damaging your calipers. In these extreme cases, leaving them in there is generally accepted as an OK thing to do. Just make sure they're in there securely and not protruding in any way (not that they could given the pads wouldn't fit otherwise).
Without dampers there's a higher risk for squeal but that can/should be eliminated with sufficient anti-squeal paste. Don't forget this paste step to be applied on the back of the break pad as well as the main pin contact points. Brake anti-squeal paste should be used regardless, with or without the pad dampers.
Have Fun
Buying new sensors when they go bad will probably cost about $60 per sensor.
Typically, you can reuse your brake sensors (even if they trip the brake sensor light) and replacing isn't necessary even if they are bad. If you keep an eye out on your brakes often enough, you can get by without the sensors when they go bad.
If you decide not to use them, just cut off the sensor head and twist the wire leads together to get rid of that pesky brake light you'll get. Then use electrical tape to isolate the now coupled wires and tuck the wires away neatly and securely.
PAD Dampers:
The damper pucks cost about $60 per wheel too as I remember. These can be a real PIA to get out, especially on northern cars where the salt/snow/rain can get them rusted and stuck in there.
In some cases, getting them out could risk damaging your calipers. In these extreme cases, leaving them in there is generally accepted as an OK thing to do. Just make sure they're in there securely and not protruding in any way (not that they could given the pads wouldn't fit otherwise).
Without dampers there's a higher risk for squeal but that can/should be eliminated with sufficient anti-squeal paste. Don't forget this paste step to be applied on the back of the break pad as well as the main pin contact points. Brake anti-squeal paste should be used regardless, with or without the pad dampers.
Have Fun
Whats the skinny on: (read several brake diy's already, but conflicting info. - kind of want to do it Sat but dont have dampeners)
1) brake sensors - leave them out unless you cant visually inspect your pads while detailing your wheels.
2) pad dampeners - reuse? squeek? replace? might pull out the piston?
'05 997.1 63xxx miles, Southeast USA.
Thanks.
1) brake sensors - leave them out unless you cant visually inspect your pads while detailing your wheels.
2) pad dampeners - reuse? squeek? replace? might pull out the piston?
'05 997.1 63xxx miles, Southeast USA.
Thanks.
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05-10-2019, 08:37 PM
#8
I have a 993 but this may be relevant to 997 as well...
Prior to installing new pads I was getting occasional and strange “low pad” warning lights but they would go away and come back again at random times. I was also getting some of the other dash warning lights dimly glowing from time to time for no apparent reason. This was concerning because everything was operating fine otherwise.
It was time to install the new pads and I noticed that one of the little sensors had broken in two but was still hanging together by the wire. I decided to not install new sensors and did the cut and solder of the old ones.
Afterwards, all of my warning light issues were gone, the broken sensor must have been sending erroneous signals through the warning system. From here on I will not install new pad sensors.
Prior to installing new pads I was getting occasional and strange “low pad” warning lights but they would go away and come back again at random times. I was also getting some of the other dash warning lights dimly glowing from time to time for no apparent reason. This was concerning because everything was operating fine otherwise.
It was time to install the new pads and I noticed that one of the little sensors had broken in two but was still hanging together by the wire. I decided to not install new sensors and did the cut and solder of the old ones.
Afterwards, all of my warning light issues were gone, the broken sensor must have been sending erroneous signals through the warning system. From here on I will not install new pad sensors.