997 leap
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
997 leap
hey everyone,
I've always loved the 997 body style, and I am fining myself in a position to own one. this would be my first Porsche.
I am currently in a fbo e46 m3 6spd coupe, e88s, supersprint, oe csl bits, air box, the whole 9. while it is a fantastic car, it is costing me more than id originally planned on. albeit my fault due to my choice in parts.
my example is a high mileage one with loads of things its going to need in the near future. I come here with 2 simple questions.
- would you consider an 80-100k mile early model 6spd 997 Carrera a reliable/good car? more specifically should i be concerned with any catastrophic failures of any sort. im aware of ims and also some scoring on the blocks.
I can get an early model higher mileage example for around 20-25k which I think is a bargain but if the car is going to be a pos then id just wait til im out of school and go gt3.
- would you consider a relatively stock 997 Carrera a better driving experience than the fbo e46?
thanks
I've always loved the 997 body style, and I am fining myself in a position to own one. this would be my first Porsche.
I am currently in a fbo e46 m3 6spd coupe, e88s, supersprint, oe csl bits, air box, the whole 9. while it is a fantastic car, it is costing me more than id originally planned on. albeit my fault due to my choice in parts.
my example is a high mileage one with loads of things its going to need in the near future. I come here with 2 simple questions.
- would you consider an 80-100k mile early model 6spd 997 Carrera a reliable/good car? more specifically should i be concerned with any catastrophic failures of any sort. im aware of ims and also some scoring on the blocks.
I can get an early model higher mileage example for around 20-25k which I think is a bargain but if the car is going to be a pos then id just wait til im out of school and go gt3.
- would you consider a relatively stock 997 Carrera a better driving experience than the fbo e46?
thanks
#2
The e46 m3 is a wonderful car from an era where BMW was still making drivers cars. That being said, comparing an e46 m3 and any chassis of 911 is not so straight forward. They are two separate driving experiences for two different drivers. The m3 is based on a full sized sedan and will always exhibit characteristics of engineers attempting to work around existing structural designs that are detrimental from a performance perspective. Additionally, the purpose of the car is to be comfortable for daily use by a broad range of potential buyers. Where the m3 makes sacrifices for being well rounded, the 911 is built upon an ideal of performance. The driving position is low, the hood slopes away because it can, the trunk is oddly shaped and storage room is split up around the car where it can be. You need to go test drive a 997, give it some time. Then go test drive one again and see how you feel getting back into the m3. Do you like a car that has the weight in the "wrong" place and will dance around on you? Many people prefer the car the requires you to be constantly aware of what inputs you give it. Some people can't get by having such a car as their only car due to space needs, many can though.
I feel like this somehow comes across not very well meant, just know the cars are very different. The word sport means different things to different people. A test drive is the best way to know for yourself. The these cars are quite reliable, all things considered. As with any German car, keep your ears and senses open to know when something feels off. It'll save you money to be proactive not reactive!
I feel like this somehow comes across not very well meant, just know the cars are very different. The word sport means different things to different people. A test drive is the best way to know for yourself. The these cars are quite reliable, all things considered. As with any German car, keep your ears and senses open to know when something feels off. It'll save you money to be proactive not reactive!
#3
Pro
Thread Starter
A rawer 997.1 CS
how would you go about this?
remove sound deadening?
100% deleting sunroof.
Bucket seats.
997S doesnt feel as raw as my e46 m3
remove sound deadening?
100% deleting sunroof.
Bucket seats.
997S doesnt feel as raw as my e46 m3
#4
Sounds like you should stick with the M3 since you like "raw." Changing seats makes it more or less comfortable. Uncomfortable is not raw. Most would say a 964 or 993 are more raw, but most had sunroofs, so deleting one won't make a 997 raw. If louder is raw, do a Gundo hack or get an aftermarket exhaust. The M3 is more raw because the 997 is more refined. Find a 997 without functioning audio or AC. That would be raw I suppose.
#5
Pro
Thread Starter
Sounds like you should stick with the M3 since you like "raw." Changing seats makes it more or less comfortable. Uncomfortable is not raw. Most would say a 964 or 993 are more raw, but most had sunroofs, so deleting one won't make a 997 raw. If louder is raw, do a Gundo hack or get an aftermarket exhaust. The M3 is more raw because the 997 is more refined. Find a 997 without functioning audio or AC. That would be raw I suppose.
we’ll see what happens.
#6
A stock 997s is going to be a lot less “raw” feeling compared to what you have have done in your M3. That being said, exhaust work makes a big difference in experience. The 911 is more of a sports car that you gain to appreciate the more you drive it. I’m happier driving this over the M cars I’ve had in the past.
#7
I’m assuming raw to you is the same as
NVH.
To increase NVH people usually do mods such as solid motor mounts, all metal shifter bushings and exhaust work.
YMMV, I would go out on a limb to say that if driving a 997 didn’t get your heart rate up and put a smile on your face, then a modded 997 would not either.
NVH.
To increase NVH people usually do mods such as solid motor mounts, all metal shifter bushings and exhaust work.
YMMV, I would go out on a limb to say that if driving a 997 didn’t get your heart rate up and put a smile on your face, then a modded 997 would not either.
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#8
Three Wheelin'
I’m assuming raw to you is the same as
NVH.
To increase NVH people usually do mods such as solid motor mounts, all metal shifter bushings and exhaust work.
YMMV, I would go out on a limb to say that if driving a 997 didn’t get your heart rate up and put a smile on your face, then a modded 997 would not either.
NVH.
To increase NVH people usually do mods such as solid motor mounts, all metal shifter bushings and exhaust work.
YMMV, I would go out on a limb to say that if driving a 997 didn’t get your heart rate up and put a smile on your face, then a modded 997 would not either.
I'll slightly disagree here. I drove several 997.2 that didn't convince me entirely. The one that ended up being quite a treat didn't need modded, but the factory spec made all the difference. LSD, Sport PASM suspension, and a few more horses coupled with noticeably better breathing via x51 is what did it. My only point is not all 997 will be equally as interesting or fun and engaging to drive. Add a proper alignment and stickier tires in the mix and the car with only factory equipment is an altogether different proposition to a number of 997 I have driven.
#9
Burning Brakes
I have a relative who owns a 2005 M3 (I don't know if this is E46) that I have driven a number of times. It doesn't feel at all like my 997. The response, agility and handling of my 997 make it the most confidence inspiring car I've ever owned. I certainly wouldn't call it "raw". If "raw" means "scares the crap out of you", how about a 730 whp Camaro?
#10
how about a 997 Turbo with Sport Cup 2s and 33 degrees outside...
#11
I've owned a 2002 M3 (6 speed manual shift) a 2005 M5 V10 (SMG) & a 2008 M3 (6 speed manual shift)... all great cars... in Dec. 2011 I traded my 2008 M3 for a new 2012 / 911 997.2 4GTS Cabriolet (6 speed manual shift/3.8L/408hp) ...I ordered the new 997.2 over the then available new (First Gen) 991, as it was going to be one of the last of the 997 naturally aspirated 6 speed manuals... I've never looked back... It's a totally different experience... I owned each of the M cars approx. 3 years... I'm in year 7 of 911/997.2 ownership, with no thoughts of moving on... it's possibly one of the best handling & most satisfying cars I've ever driven & possibly one of the best Porsche has ever made ...I've added a Fabspeed center muffler bypass exhaust "X" pipe & competition Air Intake System... these "bolt ons" add not only additional hp (31 whp / 36lb-ft)... but also greatly enhance the already brilliant engine note/growl ��
#12
Burning Brakes
#13
Pro
Thread Starter
I’m assuming raw to you is the same as
NVH.
To increase NVH people usually do mods such as solid motor mounts, all metal shifter bushings and exhaust work.
YMMV, I would go out on a limb to say that if driving a 997 didn’t get your heart rate up and put a smile on your face, then a modded 997 would not either.
NVH.
To increase NVH people usually do mods such as solid motor mounts, all metal shifter bushings and exhaust work.
YMMV, I would go out on a limb to say that if driving a 997 didn’t get your heart rate up and put a smile on your face, then a modded 997 would not either.
I think its the rear engine/ flat 6 that aids the refinement. The I6 8.2k redline front engine m3 gives me a more muscle car screamer vibe. The rear seat delete helps too though the m3 makes more power aswell. That being said i think i could sharpen the 997 up a bit with a few choice mods.
#14
Pro
Thread Starter
I'll slightly disagree here. I drove several 997.2 that didn't convince me entirely. The one that ended up being quite a treat didn't need modded, but the factory spec made all the difference. LSD, Sport PASM suspension, and a few more horses coupled with noticeably better breathing via x51 is what did it. My only point is not all 997 will be equally as interesting or fun and engaging to drive. Add a proper alignment and stickier tires in the mix and the car with only factory equipment is an altogether different proposition to a number of 997 I have driven.
i think u can create 75% gt3 expierence for less than half the price.
#15
Burning Brakes
nvh doesnt totally equate to raw imo.
I think its the rear engine/ flat 6 that aids the refinement. The I6 8.2k redline front engine m3 gives me a more muscle car screamer vibe. The rear seat delete helps too though the m3 makes more power aswell. That being said i think i could sharpen the 997 up a bit with a few choice mods.
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John.berg (01-01-2020)