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Might be crazy ****, but its incredibly well documented crazy **** :-)
And you've laid down the gauntlet on this one. We need to pull in @Jake Raby@Petza914@Wayne Smith and the rest of the smarties on this one.
It's well documented that it adds a bit of sound. That's all; no one that I know of has documented any increase in power. Lots of documented butt dynos! And we all know how reliable those are!
Originally Posted by Petza914
Someone with a Durametric should track MAF readings with and without the plug installed under the same circumstances. If the MAF shows more air being measured, the DME will add more fuel to keep the mixture right and more air plus more fuel = more power.
If the MAF readings are the same, you could look at fuel trim numbers to see if maybe its air velocity that changes and the fuel trim numbers are higher one way or the other. A higher fueling number means the car sensed lean (more air) and added fuel to get the mixture right again.
My guess is that in the (unlikely) event it does produce some small amount of power gain that it would be so small that no one is going to "really feel it come alive between 4 and 6k rpm".
I love me some butt dyno!! Hey Bruce, you didn't mention, or maybe I missed it, but did you also upgrade your air filter to a hi-flow version like BMC or K&N when you added the intake hose and plug??
I have done my fair share of mods and spent lots of time at the dyno tuning cars. To be honest... for some mods the sound alone is worth the price and HP be damned. If it puts a smile on your face and the placebo butt dyno affect is strong then maybe it's worth it. If it makes you happy, then that is cool, but just be aware that our ecu's are pretty smart and any change in air velocity will be measured and adjusted for with more or less fuel. In general, any improvement in airflow is good. As far as dyno's... well ,even if a dyno was done back to back I still believe that our ecu's need more time than just 3 dyno pulls to adjust fuel maps for every driving condition and learn how to deal with better airflow at many different rpm ranges, not just wide open throttle. So a solid tune will take dozens of pulls on the dyno to sort out properly. A solid increase at the dyno with 3 pulls is a good start and shows that something has definitely improved, but you have to take dyno's with a grain of salt too because a lot of variables in temperature and air flow to the engine can wipe out 5-10 hp gains easily. I think I understand why Vern1 gets his panties in a wad because he likes to see hard facts and dyno sheets. I don't blame him since there are a lot of scammers out there and suckers born every minute. So I think Vern1 is just trying to watch out for us young gullible types.
With that said.. I will be devils advocate and just relay fabspeeds dyno figures for their intake mod... which is rediculously overpriced $$$... but here it is ...
"Improves horsepower and torque by 11 whp and 2 ft-lbs when done in conjunction with a BMC F1 Air Filter."
Key words... In conjunction with BMC filter... I think any improvement is coming from the high flow filter and also a less restrictive intake hose with smooth interior walls which allows smoother air flow and introduces less turbulence into the intake manifold than the stock accordion style intake hose. Back in my fast and furious days we use to spend time port matching and polishing intake manifolds and exhaust manifolds to make sure that all the openings matched perfectly between the heads and manifolds. We polished out any imperfections in the walls that would cause turbulence as well. I think on a smaller scale this is happening as well with this mod.
I found the stock intake hose to be smaller in diameter in a couple spots then the intake hose and plug option. I use to have the K&N intake Kit installed for many years and absolutely loved the sound of that, but about a year ago I switched over to the polyurethane intake hose with plug and hi flow K&N air filter with oem air box. Got intake hose/plug on ebay "Top Speed" about $45 bucks back then. The Home Depot version is fine too, but I was concerned about the overall diameter of the "3 inch" hose, which again measures less than that in some areas. Plus, hot engine and flexible rubber attached to a huge vacuum pump may cause some collapsing at high rpms in really hot conditions. Another reason I think reinforced polyurethane will keep its shape a bit better under hot conditions. I was able to stretch it just enough to work with my 82mm GT3 Throttle Body competition plenum setup.
As far as sound/performance. K&N intake kit sounded the best overall and I still stand by my butt dyno that it was a nice increase in performance most of the time. No denying the divider walls surrounding the kit could still allow some hot air to pass by, but this current setup of oem box with intake hose, plug and hi flow filters is 75% of the noise of the K&N kit, but with 100% of the hot engine air factor being eliminated. I will also give it a thumbs up the butt dyno vote Although I did run this setup for many months, the wailing cry of a new intake kit called my name. Found a great deal and running the EVOMS V-Flow intake kit now.
A more open intake only sucks in hot air at low speed or sitting in traffic and in those situations doesn't really matter. There is so much ambient airflow into the engine compartment at speed that the radiant heat from the engine is essentially a non-issue.
A more open intake only sucks in hot air at low speed or sitting in traffic and in those situations doesn't really matter. There is so much ambient airflow into the engine compartment at speed that the radiant heat from the engine is essentially a non-issue.
I totally agree. I had my K&N cone filter kit on for 8 years and still one of its biggest defenders. One of my favorite mods and the sound is awesome.. Never let me down and always felt strong. Still have it laying around incase I want to swap in again. During the hot summer months and sitting a lot in traffic I decided to go back to oem box and try this intake setup for awhile. Been happy with it so far. Its a good alternative for those not sure about hot engine air temps or worried about cone filter intakes and maf sensors. The sound is not as loud or raspy as cone filter kits but much improved over the stock setup. Performance differences are subtle when its used with high flow air filter. It's interesting you mentioned slower or lower rpm performance situations not really mattering, but in some scenarios like summer LA traffic they do matter.. Especially in hot summer months because thats why i decided to go back and try it out. More for peace of mind while i sit there in traffic.
I totally agree. I had my K&N cone filter kit on for 8 years and still one of its biggest defenders. One of my favorite mods and the sound is awesome.. Never let me down and always felt strong. Still have it laying around incase I want to swap in again. During the hot summer months and sitting a lot in traffic I decided to go back to oem box and try this intake setup for awhile. Been happy with it so far. Its a good alternative for those not sure about hot engine air temps or worried about cone filter intakes and maf sensors. The sound is not as loud or raspy as cone filter kits but much improved over the stock setup. Performance differences are subtle when its used with high flow air filter. It's interesting you mentioned slower or lower rpm performance situations not really mattering, but in some scenarios like summer LA traffic they do matter.. Especially in hot summer months because thats why i decided to go back and try it out. More for peace of mind while i sit there in traffic.
That's true. Should have said doesn't really matter "to me" because my cars have forced induction and with the compression of the intake air, the losses due to warmer air being less dense aren't as significant since I'm making it dense again.
I've also never had a MAF issue to date, but when I reoil my K&N filters, I then stuff them with most of a roll of paper towels, and wrap more towels around the outside 2-3 times and they sit like that overnight or for a full day. This has the towels absorb any excess oil that would normally be sucked through and could deposit on the MAF wire. I also use a hydrophobic K&N prefilter wrap on them which helps prevent the filter media from getting wet when driving in the rain.
On my Cayenne that has in intake air temp gauge with my p3cars vent gauge, the intake air temperature through those K&N filters is about 10 F warmer than what the car tells me the outside air temperature is. For these modded cars with tunes and forced induction, the freer breathing from the intake and exhaust setup certainly overcomes the slightly higher intake air temps.
On my 928, the open filter was right behind the radiator and I didn't think that was a good setup, so modified that one to pull from a 4" duct through the passenger fender wall and into the supercharger.
That's true. Should have said doesn't really matter "to me" because my cars have forced induction and with the compression of the intake air, the losses due to warmer air being less dense aren't as significant since I'm making it dense again.
I've also never had a MAF issue to date, but when I reoil my K&N filters, I then stuff them with most of a roll of paper towels, and wrap more towels around the outside 2-3 times and they sit like that overnight or for a full day. This has the towels absorb any excess oil that would normally be sucked through and could deposit on the MAF wire. I also use a hydrophobic K&N prefilter wrap on them which helps prevent the filter media from getting wet when driving in the rain.
On my Cayenne that has in intake air temp gauge with my p3cars vent gauge, the intake air temperature through those K&N filters is about 10 F warmer than what the car tells me the outside air temperature is. For these modded cars with tunes and forced induction, the freer breathing from the intake and exhaust setup certainly overcomes the slightly higher intake air temps.
On my 928, the open filter was right behind the radiator and I didn't think that was a good setup, so modified that one to pull from a 4" duct through the passenger fender wall and into the supercharger.
I didn't know your 928 was supercharged too Gotta love the "racer/mod life" in the Porsche culture/community. Looks so cool and nice fabrication for cold air intake. That's thinking outside of the box!... no pun intended
I didn't know your 928 was supercharged too Gotta love the "racer/mod life" in the Porsche culture/community. Looks so cool and nice fabrication for cold air intake. That's thinking outside of the box!... no pun intended
Thanks a lot. Liking the Racer / Mod Life comment. People have Salt Life and Lake Life shirts.
Need to have my wife make me up a Racer / Mod Life or Porsche Life one LOL
I cant definitely feel a difference around 4-5k. And, like most of you guys I know when even the slightest thing is off in my car.
@vern1 - maybe blocking off an S might have little effect, since it already has the flap closed when Sport Mode is activated. However, the C2 base models have no flap actuator and are permanently open. So capping it off might produce more effect for them. What say you to that my grumpy friend?
I cant definitely feel a difference around 4-5k. And, like most of you guys I know when even the slightest thing is off in my car.
@vern1 - maybe blocking off an S might have little effect, since it already has the flap closed when Sport Mode is activated. However, the C2 base models have no flap actuator and are permanently open. So capping it off might produce more effect for them. What say you to that my grumpy friend?
I already told you my opinion which is it adds a bit of noise and does not add any performance gain on any car. Show me a dyno to prove me wrong otherwise its just a story (and lord knows there are enough of them around here )
Re K&N's hot air intake, even if those numbers are accurate, no ones feeling 10hp and 2 whole ft/lbs of torque
I already told you my opinion which is it adds a bit of noise and does not add any performance gain on any car. Show me a dyno to prove me wrong otherwise its just a story (and lord knows there are enough of them around here )
Re K&N's hot air intake, even if those numbers are accurate, no ones feeling 10hp and 2 whole ft/lbs of torque
Actually the 11hp and 2 tq dyno I posted above is for the Fabspeed Helmholtz Resonator hack intake hose and plug mod along with BMC Hi flow airfilter mod..
The K&N intake you love to hate so much is more like 23hp gain at 5500 rpm and holds about 10+ hp to redline on a 3.6 engine.
" K&N tests on our in-house dynamometer have shown an estimated gain of 23.80 Horsepower at 5500 RPM with the 57-7000 Intake System. "We were able to get such good horsepower because the original factory airbox is restrictive," said K&N Performance Kit Manager Bert Heck. "The design of the K&N Intake Tube and repositioning of the mass air sensor is a big reason why we were able to get so much power."
Take it all with a grain of saltiness.. Lord knows Vern1 likes a good story!!!
Hi!
Just bought exactly the same kit! But unmounting the OEM hose, I found out that the resonator part (with the flap) is not really stirdy: I can pull ut like this from the air box and it seems to be retained only by the wire allowing to move the flap:
Is it normal? In this cas, it means that the air flow must produce some kind of succion on the aluminum cap preventing anything to fly around in the engine bay...
Thanks in advance
Hi! Just bought exactly the same kit! But unmounting the OEM hose, I found out that the resonator part (with the flap) is not really stirdy: I can pull ut like this from the air box and it seems to be retained only by the wire allowing to move the flap: Is it normal? In this cas, it means that the air flow must produce some kind of succion on the aluminum cap preventing anything to fly around in the engine bay... Thanks in advance
Originally Posted by Racetwin2
I assume you have a 997.1?
No risk - its litterally a 10 minute job. Also fully reversible in 10 minutes. I bought a kit from Design911 for about 100 Euro:
10-02-2019, 11:24 PM
Hey Bruce, you didn't mention, or maybe I missed it, but did you also upgrade your air filter to a hi-flow version like BMC or K&N when you added the intake hose and plug??
I don't blame him since there are a lot of scammers out there and suckers born every minute. So I think Vern1 is just trying to watch out for us young gullible types.
Although I did run this setup for many months, the wailing cry of a new intake kit called my name. Found a great deal and running the EVOMS V-Flow intake kit now. 
Gotta love the "racer/mod life" in the Porsche culture/community. Looks so cool and nice fabrication for cold air intake. That's thinking outside of the box!... no pun intended 
