VF engineering tune
#31
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Thanks for the insight and review of the tune. I have been thinking about this for a long time as well. In your research have you heard of any additional maintenance that might be required after running a tune long term? For example, needing spark plugs changed or new coils more often?? Or what about passing smog inspections? Do you need to revert to original file to pass smog? Just curious if you found any info like that.
Thanks again for the review, very tempting![thumbup](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/thumbup.gif)
Thanks again for the review, very tempting
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#32
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So no before and after dyno charts? $1000 seems a bit expensive for a mail order tune. Now when you are saying 20hp you mean 20hp at the crank or rwhp? Im assuming at the crank because its super hard to gain 20rwhp without hardware (exhaust, intake etc.) Unless the car is already FI of course.
#33
Instructor
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So no before and after dyno charts? $1000 seems a bit expensive for a mail order tune. Now when you are saying 20hp you mean 20hp at the crank or rwhp? Im assuming at the crank because its super hard to gain 20rwhp without hardware (exhaust, intake etc.) Unless the car is already FI of course.
APR advertises the highest overall HP gain for a base 997 C2 at (may be a number or two off, don't have their site in front of me right now) 24 crank hp, 27 tq or so, GIAC being the lowest, if my memory serves correctly, advertising only ~9-10 crank HP. The dyno shop near me that wants to do the tune says they'll start with the GIAC as it is the easiest for them to modify. IF APR/softronic/VF can push that 20-25hp limit, and have it work with the mods correctly, it most certainly would be worth it compared to GIAC with its meager 9hp gain, however, I assume the dyno shop will have much more customizable options, even if they start with the GIAC, which, theoretically could easily reach 20, 25, maybe even 30HP depending how it works with the current mods in place - especially since the dyno tune can custom tune the air-fuel ratio throughout the entire REV range, probably ending with a higher HP gain than the 9 from GIAC out of the box, probably safer (AFR can be specifically tuned for max power/efficiency), and in the end worth more overall to get than a mail order tune, even if the cost is greater. Also, it'll get pre/post dyno results.
I'm glad to hear the tune turned out well! nothing beats when something works as advertised, especially if it makes you enjoy your car more!
#34
Drifting
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Yes glad the OP feels it was worth it but i would never do this myself. Dont trust anyone's butt dyno regardless of seat time. Would need solid ie dyno evidence that it worked or it would be returned
And without a dyno whether he thinks rwhp or crank is meaningless
Maybe there is some marginal improvement on stock cars but if you get an off the shelf tune you want it to work so you feel that it is working - just like the guys that add air filters and talk bout how the response is sooo much better and they can for sure feel the extra HP - its just human nature and everyone does it. True data is the only way to know and i dont trust the vendors data either. If they were all doing a tune on a stock engine and they all wanted to maximize results (so they can sell more product) then why would the performance improvement numbers be so different ie +/- 200%?
Agree with Milo that on engines that have been more modified, like mine, then i will go custom dyno tune
Cheers
And without a dyno whether he thinks rwhp or crank is meaningless
Maybe there is some marginal improvement on stock cars but if you get an off the shelf tune you want it to work so you feel that it is working - just like the guys that add air filters and talk bout how the response is sooo much better and they can for sure feel the extra HP - its just human nature and everyone does it. True data is the only way to know and i dont trust the vendors data either. If they were all doing a tune on a stock engine and they all wanted to maximize results (so they can sell more product) then why would the performance improvement numbers be so different ie +/- 200%?
Agree with Milo that on engines that have been more modified, like mine, then i will go custom dyno tune
Cheers
#35
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IDK about the 997, but with the S2000 a simple flash on a stock motor was hands down the best $/hp you could get and that car was pretty well maxed for potential right from the factory. It isn’t just about overall hp gains as much as it is gains throughout the power band. My guess is the reason you see different #s reported is due to different ways they report (max hp vs max gain).
What other mod can you buy for this car for less than $1k that will add hp?
What other mod can you buy for this car for less than $1k that will add hp?
#36
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Don't have to trust anyone's butt dyno since there is an easy way to get objective data. I recently play with the virtualdyno s/w since I want to compare my dynopack data with it and the result are consistence with each other. Just download virtualdyno (it's free) and do a log with the Torque Pro app on Android and/or IPhone via an OBDII dongle ($10 on Amazon) and you will have real data. Then we'll see whether the data are consistence with the OP's butt dyno.
#37
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Yes thank you! Very tempting.
I sent the following questions to VF technical service, but figure I would post them here too to see if you had any info:
1. can they tune for 91 octane? California only sells 91 and it causes an engine knock if you blip the throttle below 2,500 RPM. (At least thats the explanation I got).
2. does the tune for the base 997 increase throttle response (like C2S sport mode).
I sent the following questions to VF technical service, but figure I would post them here too to see if you had any info:
1. can they tune for 91 octane? California only sells 91 and it causes an engine knock if you blip the throttle below 2,500 RPM. (At least thats the explanation I got).
2. does the tune for the base 997 increase throttle response (like C2S sport mode).
#38
Three Wheelin'
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Don't have to trust anyone's butt dyno since there is an easy way to get objective data. I recently play with the virtualdyno s/w since I want to compare my dynopack data with it and the result are consistence with each other. Just download virtualdyno (it's free) and do a log with the Torque Pro app on Android and/or IPhone via an OBDII dongle ($10 on Amazon) and you will have real data. Then we'll see whether the data are consistence with the OP's butt dyno.
Interesting notes, thanks. How close was the data you got between a dynopack and the virtualdyno?
#39
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Yes thank you! Very tempting.
I sent the following questions to VF technical service, but figure I would post them here too to see if you had any info:
1. can they tune for 91 octane? California only sells 91 and it causes an engine knock if you blip the throttle below 2,500 RPM. (At least thats the explanation I got).
2. does the tune for the base 997 increase throttle response (like C2S sport mode).
I sent the following questions to VF technical service, but figure I would post them here too to see if you had any info:
1. can they tune for 91 octane? California only sells 91 and it causes an engine knock if you blip the throttle below 2,500 RPM. (At least thats the explanation I got).
2. does the tune for the base 997 increase throttle response (like C2S sport mode).
We are a California company, so we test and tune specifically on CA 91 Octane.
The sophistication of these modern ECUs will allow for adaption based on fuel
quality and other conditional changes in the same manner as on a completely
stock vehicle. This means that 93 Octane (or higher) will achieve even better
results, while 91 Octane customers will meet or exceed our advertised gains.
As shared in the review above, we do make some minor changes to throttle
response which we feel improves power delivery without affecting drivability.
All of our OBDII Port Flashable software also comes with a 30-Day Money
Back Guarantee, which means there's absolutely no harm in trying it our.
This is essentially our way of saying that if it doesn't deliver as advertised
and/or meet your own expectation, the ECU can be flashed back to stock
and fully refunded.
#41
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So I'd suggest the OP log a few runs with the stock tune then switch over the VF's tune and do a few more runs to verify his butt dyno... taking averages of those runs should tell a story
Last edited by lowbee; 01-14-2019 at 07:09 PM.
#42
Drifting
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IDK about the 997, but with the S2000 a simple flash on a stock motor was hands down the best $/hp you could get and that car was pretty well maxed for potential right from the factory. It isn’t just about overall hp gains as much as it is gains throughout the power band. My guess is the reason you see different #s reported is due to different ways they report (max hp vs max gain).
What other mod can you buy for this car for less than $1k that will add hp?
What other mod can you buy for this car for less than $1k that will add hp?
Don't have to trust anyone's butt dyno since there is an easy way to get objective data. I recently play with the virtualdyno s/w since I want to compare my dynopack data with it and the result are consistence with each other. Just download virtualdyno (it's free) and do a log with the Torque Pro app on Android and/or IPhone via an OBDII dongle ($10 on Amazon) and you will have real data. Then we'll see whether the data are consistence with the OP's butt dyno.
#43
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Well who says he's getting any HP or how much? I am sure the tune improves something but without pre/post dynos on the same car, who knows?? And i have my doubts the differences are in how they report. If you were a vendor wouldnt you put the highest number possible?
Ok well thats cool. I am going to check that out, Thanks
Ok well thats cool. I am going to check that out, Thanks
#44
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Originally Posted by vern1
Well who says he's getting any HP or how much? I am sure the tune improves something but without pre/post dynos on the same car, who knows?? And i have my doubts the differences are in how they report. If you were a vendor wouldnt you put the highest number possible?Ok well thats cool. I am going to check it out, Thanks
CW
#45
Drifting
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I dont think that a company intentionally misleading customers on HP gains is something that happens a great deal at this level. All of VF's claims are dyno backed. I dont need the Dentist to send me an X-ray after they put in the filling to prove its there... All I can say is that I am a very happy customer that believes VF has the integrity to sell actual, provable updates...
I am glad you are happy with the results. I didnt pay for it so who cares what i think
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I dont think the climarepair example is a good one. You can look at the switches (the early ones anyways) and objectively tell they were ****. No testing required.