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Old 01-13-2019, 05:25 PM
  #31  
jpclinging
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Originally Posted by qikqbn View Post
Thanks for the insight and review of the tune. I have been thinking about this for a long time as well. In your research have you heard of any additional maintenance that might be required after running a tune long term? For example, needing spark plugs changed or new coils more often?? Or what about passing smog inspections? Do you need to revert to original file to pass smog? Just curious if you found any info like that.

Thanks again for the review, very tempting
I would don't this so on the smog, as for maintaining the car, I don't expect any major differences as I didn't add any non Porsche parts to the car, just a software rewrite
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Old 01-13-2019, 11:22 PM
  #32  
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So no before and after dyno charts? $1000 seems a bit expensive for a mail order tune. Now when you are saying 20hp you mean 20hp at the crank or rwhp? Im assuming at the crank because its super hard to gain 20rwhp without hardware (exhaust, intake etc.) Unless the car is already FI of course.
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Old 01-14-2019, 04:41 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by zdeckich View Post
So no before and after dyno charts? $1000 seems a bit expensive for a mail order tune. Now when you are saying 20hp you mean 20hp at the crank or rwhp? Im assuming at the crank because its super hard to gain 20rwhp without hardware (exhaust, intake etc.) Unless the car is already FI of course.
1000 is about on par for the majority of the mail order tunes I've seen. I've asked several questions to several vendors (GIAC, APR, Softronic, and now VF) - all of them are 900-1200 to buy. My sticking point is, will their mail order tune take into account the modifications that have already been done to my car? I know they do a TON of datalogging to produce a quality product, but how many Base 997s have been rebuilt with ported/polished heads, knife edged crank and then a full exhaust/intake setup put on them? my guess is not a whole lot. On my car, the extensive modifications have added a noticeable amount of hesitation between 5000-5200RPM, which i'd like to get rid of (that alone would make a tune worth it to me) Or, will a full blown Dyno tune be the only way to truly maximize? APR basically gave me ZERO sales pitch, and said it would be best to get a dyno tune, no matter what software I was considering.

APR advertises the highest overall HP gain for a base 997 C2 at (may be a number or two off, don't have their site in front of me right now) 24 crank hp, 27 tq or so, GIAC being the lowest, if my memory serves correctly, advertising only ~9-10 crank HP. The dyno shop near me that wants to do the tune says they'll start with the GIAC as it is the easiest for them to modify. IF APR/softronic/VF can push that 20-25hp limit, and have it work with the mods correctly, it most certainly would be worth it compared to GIAC with its meager 9hp gain, however, I assume the dyno shop will have much more customizable options, even if they start with the GIAC, which, theoretically could easily reach 20, 25, maybe even 30HP depending how it works with the current mods in place - especially since the dyno tune can custom tune the air-fuel ratio throughout the entire REV range, probably ending with a higher HP gain than the 9 from GIAC out of the box, probably safer (AFR can be specifically tuned for max power/efficiency), and in the end worth more overall to get than a mail order tune, even if the cost is greater. Also, it'll get pre/post dyno results.

I'm glad to hear the tune turned out well! nothing beats when something works as advertised, especially if it makes you enjoy your car more!
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Old 01-14-2019, 12:30 PM
  #34  
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Yes glad the OP feels it was worth it but i would never do this myself. Dont trust anyone's butt dyno regardless of seat time. Would need solid ie dyno evidence that it worked or it would be returned

And without a dyno whether he thinks rwhp or crank is meaningless

Maybe there is some marginal improvement on stock cars but if you get an off the shelf tune you want it to work so you feel that it is working - just like the guys that add air filters and talk bout how the response is sooo much better and they can for sure feel the extra HP - its just human nature and everyone does it. True data is the only way to know and i dont trust the vendors data either. If they were all doing a tune on a stock engine and they all wanted to maximize results (so they can sell more product) then why would the performance improvement numbers be so different ie +/- 200%?

Agree with Milo that on engines that have been more modified, like mine, then i will go custom dyno tune

Cheers
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Old 01-14-2019, 01:20 PM
  #35  
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IDK about the 997, but with the S2000 a simple flash on a stock motor was hands down the best $/hp you could get and that car was pretty well maxed for potential right from the factory. It isn’t just about overall hp gains as much as it is gains throughout the power band. My guess is the reason you see different #s reported is due to different ways they report (max hp vs max gain).

What other mod can you buy for this car for less than $1k that will add hp?
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Old 01-14-2019, 03:36 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by vern1 View Post
.....Dont trust anyone's butt dyno regardless of seat time....
Don't have to trust anyone's butt dyno since there is an easy way to get objective data. I recently play with the virtualdyno s/w since I want to compare my dynopack data with it and the result are consistence with each other. Just download virtualdyno (it's free) and do a log with the Torque Pro app on Android and/or IPhone via an OBDII dongle ($10 on Amazon) and you will have real data. Then we'll see whether the data are consistence with the OP's butt dyno.

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Old 01-14-2019, 05:01 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by TheBruce View Post
Yes thank you! Very tempting.

I sent the following questions to VF technical service, but figure I would post them here too to see if you had any info:

1. can they tune for 91 octane? California only sells 91 and it causes an engine knock if you blip the throttle below 2,500 RPM. (At least thats the explanation I got).
2. does the tune for the base 997 increase throttle response (like C2S sport mode).
Where did you send the questions to, and did they respond?
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Old 01-14-2019, 05:13 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by lowbee View Post
Don't have to trust anyone's butt dyno since there is an easy way to get objective data. I recently play with the virtualdyno s/w since I want to compare my dynopack data with it and the result are consistence with each other. Just download virtualdyno (it's free) and do a log with the Torque Pro app on Android and/or IPhone via an OBDII dongle ($10 on Amazon) and you will have real data. Then we'll see whether the data are consistence with the OP's butt dyno.

Interesting notes, thanks. How close was the data you got between a dynopack and the virtualdyno?
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Old 01-14-2019, 05:30 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by ReducedSpeedAhd View Post
Where did you send the questions to, and did they respond?
I sent to their technical service email. No response yet.
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Old 01-14-2019, 05:52 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by TheBruce View Post
Yes thank you! Very tempting.

I sent the following questions to VF technical service, but figure I would post them here too to see if you had any info:

1. can they tune for 91 octane? California only sells 91 and it causes an engine knock if you blip the throttle below 2,500 RPM. (At least thats the explanation I got).
2. does the tune for the base 997 increase throttle response (like C2S sport mode).

We are a California company, so we test and tune specifically on CA 91 Octane.

The sophistication of these modern ECUs will allow for adaption based on fuel
quality and other conditional changes in the same manner as on a completely
stock vehicle. This means that 93 Octane (or higher) will achieve even better
results, while 91 Octane customers will meet or exceed our advertised gains.

As shared in the review above, we do make some minor changes to throttle
response which we feel improves power delivery without affecting drivability.



All of our OBDII Port Flashable software also comes with a 30-Day Money
Back Guarantee, which means there's absolutely no harm in trying it our.
This is essentially our way of saying that if it doesn't deliver as advertised
and/or meet your own expectation, the ECU can be flashed back to stock
and fully refunded.



__________________
ABOUT VF-Engineering:
VF-Engineering, Inc. uses state of the art processes to design, create, test and manufacture one of the highest quality supercharger kits on the market. The VF-Engineering facility is Located in the heart of Southern California. All our products are created and tested in house to ensure optimal gains and ensure factory like driveability and reliability.
VF-Engineering products are proudly Made in the USA.


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Old 01-14-2019, 06:51 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Fined View Post
....How close was the data you got between a dynopack and the virtualdyno?
The dynopack and the virtualdyno runs were done in two different days, in different gear, with different operators under significantly different outside temp conditions which had a big impact on the output of my other turbo car, I was doing the comparison mainly to verify the shape of the curves (spool time & failing off at high rpm). Given that, the different between the WTQ and WHP numbers on the dynopack and the virtual dyno for my other car was within 7%. The log from my back-to-back runs under the same outside temp condition with the same operators were yielding WTQ and WHP numbers within 4% of each other.

So I'd suggest the OP log a few runs with the stock tune then switch over the VF's tune and do a few more runs to verify his butt dyno... taking averages of those runs should tell a story

Last edited by lowbee; 01-14-2019 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 01-14-2019, 10:01 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by bgoetz View Post
IDK about the 997, but with the S2000 a simple flash on a stock motor was hands down the best $/hp you could get and that car was pretty well maxed for potential right from the factory. It isn’t just about overall hp gains as much as it is gains throughout the power band. My guess is the reason you see different #s reported is due to different ways they report (max hp vs max gain).

What other mod can you buy for this car for less than $1k that will add hp?
Well who says he's getting any HP or how much? I am sure the tune improves something but without pre/post dynos on the same car, who knows?? And i have my doubts the differences are in how they report. If you were a vendor wouldnt you put the highest number possible?


Originally Posted by lowbee View Post
Don't have to trust anyone's butt dyno since there is an easy way to get objective data. I recently play with the virtualdyno s/w since I want to compare my dynopack data with it and the result are consistence with each other. Just download virtualdyno (it's free) and do a log with the Torque Pro app on Android and/or IPhone via an OBDII dongle ($10 on Amazon) and you will have real data. Then we'll see whether the data are consistence with the OP's butt dyno.
Ok well thats cool. I am going to check that out, Thanks
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Old 01-14-2019, 10:13 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by vern1 View Post
Well who says he's getting any HP or how much? I am sure the tune improves something but without pre/post dynos on the same car, who knows?? And i have my doubts the differences are in how they report. If you were a vendor wouldnt you put the highest number possible?




Ok well thats cool. I am going to check that out, Thanks
I dont think that a company intentionally misleading customers on HP gains is something that happens a great deal at this level. All of VF's claims are dyno backed. I dont need the Dentist to send me an X-ray after they put in the filling to prove its there... All I can say is that I am a very happy customer that believes VF has the integrity to sell actual, provable updates...
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Old 01-14-2019, 10:14 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by vern1
Well who says he's getting any HP or how much? I am sure the tune improves something but without pre/post dynos on the same car, who knows?? And i have my doubts the differences are in how they report. If you were a vendor wouldnt you put the highest number possible?Ok well thats cool. I am going to check it out, Thanks
Yeah, you'd want to post the highest numbers possible. But then people install it and if claims don't match reality, your reputation goes to hell and you get abused, on this forum in particular (see that climerepair thread for evidence.)

CW
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Old 01-14-2019, 10:35 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by jpclinging View Post
I dont think that a company intentionally misleading customers on HP gains is something that happens a great deal at this level. All of VF's claims are dyno backed. I dont need the Dentist to send me an X-ray after they put in the filling to prove its there... All I can say is that I am a very happy customer that believes VF has the integrity to sell actual, provable updates...
Didnt say anyone was misleading customers. What i said was that without specific dyno results on your car you dont know what improvements you are getting. Dyno results can be very different on the same machine with different operators and different conditions. Vendors will always present the best case possible. Nothing misleading, its called marketing. And btw the dentist doesnt tell you that the fillin is made of titanium and therefore is good for an extra 10hp when you drive. You can just open your mouth and see its there!

I am glad you are happy with the results. I didnt pay for it so who cares what i think

Originally Posted by cwheeler View Post
Yeah, you'd want to post the highest numbers possible. But then people install it and if claims don't match reality, your reputation goes to hell and you get abused, on this forum in particular (see that climerepair thread for evidence.)

CW
Well no one has actually dyno'd it so how is anyone to prove the claims match reality. I am sure they do but as someone said, trust but verify.....

I dont think the climarepair example is a good one. You can look at the switches (the early ones anyways) and objectively tell they were ****. No testing required.
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