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I agree wholeheartedly about the smaller diameter wheels. So much in fact, that I went to 18s from the 19s that my car had originally. Historically speaking, all 911s have always had “chunky” tires until the latest generations and they always looked and performed great. My car looks better (IMO), rides better and the tires are (a bit) cheaper.
I personally like the more meaty tire /deep dish look of the 18's - just looks more like a tough mean porsche -just like ASTR's and how Porsches are supposed to look (see the Singers). Not ghetto and poseur like 20's on the 997. DYMAG your car and wheels are awesome but for god's sake get the colored center caps - I just don't get the cheap looking black and white caps. Sorry I am so opinionated tonight.
I personally like the more meaty tire /deep dish look of the 18's - just looks more like a tough mean porsche -just like ASTR's and how Porsches are supposed to look (see the Singers). Not ghetto and poseur like 20's on the 997. DYMAG your car and wheels are awesome but for god's sake get the colored center caps - I just don't get the cheap looking black and white caps. Sorry I am so opinionated tonight.
Agree, 20's are too big for a 997.
I prefer the Black Crest on the brushed aluminum center caps - Brixton custom made them with the wheels. I believe the center caps would look "off" if they were in the gold crest
Never met a purists I enjoyed talking with as much as a real enthusiast. Real enthusiasts tend to respect all things done by other car owners wether their taste or not. May not be what they like, what they would do, how they would spend their money but they respect it.
You see enthusiasts have class.....something purists just sometimes (cough cough most of time sniffle sniffle) can lack. Personally, I would never ever own a stock car. (EVER, I have a disease to
mod, may start a support group for it) But when I see an owner loving his stocker at a car show or other I make sure to leave them with a positive vibe maybe suggesting how clean there car looks....or other.
I digress as I know this is more about wheel size vs purist/mods but strikingly close as many of that same camp seem to align with the purist view. Keep it as it came from the all mighty factory!
You never really know what made a car guy who they are. Maybe it’s budget, maybe it’s a trend past on by a family member or maybe it’s a way for someone to be different or keep something in their life controlled /as is. (Stock).
What ever the difference remember it’s all good....
Want the gloves off? Ok, here goes. Two kinds of porsche 997 owners out there. Happy ones with 20+’ wheels and unhappy ones with anything less then 20+’ wheels. Ahahahahaha a joke.
The same people that hate on 20s are the ones that think your going to loose control of your car heading to the grocery store based on a simple aero change made on a 997 wether a wing added, a chin spoiler swap not balances in the rear or what ever else. God forbid u make a change to the absolute most perfect car made by the most perfect company your gonna compromise resale and then likely be called a ricer by our fellow purist owners.
Bahahahahah
now Bruce put down the scotch and go to bed
cheers
Never met a purists I enjoyed talking with as much as a real enthusiast. Real enthusiasts tend to respect all things done by other car owners wether their taste or not. May not be what they like, what they would do, how they would spend their money but they respect it.
You see enthusiasts have class.....something purists just sometimes (cough cough most of time sniffle sniffle) can lack. Personally, I would never ever own a stock car. (EVER, I have a disease to
mod, may start a support group for it) But when I see an owner loving his stocker at a car show or other I make sure to leave them with a positive vibe maybe suggesting how clean there car looks....or other.
I digress as I know this is more about wheel size vs purist/mods but strikingly close as many of that same camp seem to align with the purist view. Keep it as it came from the all mighty factory!
You never really know what made a car guy who they are. Maybe it’s budget, maybe it’s a trend past on by a family member or maybe it’s a way for someone to be different or keep something in their life controlled /as is. (Stock).
What ever the difference remember it’s all good....
Want the gloves off? Ok, here goes. Two kinds of porsche 997 owners out there. Happy ones with 20+’ wheels and unhappy ones with anything less then 20+’ wheels. Ahahahahaha a joke.
The same people that hate on 20s are the ones that think your going to loose control of your car heading to the grocery store based on a simple aero change made on a 997 wether a wing added, a chin spoiler swap not balances in the rear or what ever else. God forbid u make a change to the absolute most perfect car made by the most perfect company your gonna compromise resale and then likely be called a ricer by our fellow purist owners.
Bahahahahah
now Bruce put down the scotch and go to bed
cheers
Does anyone know the maximum tire overall diameter I can put on a 17" wheel? 997.1 c2
Formula 1 is also going to a bigger wheel and smaller sidewall, they are dont doing it to hurt performance. I really dont get the hate on 19/20 inch wheels. If you have a forged light wheel with a good tire you will sacrifice 0 performance. There is several people here that have 18 inch wheels but awful tires on them and think they have the best handling car out there because the have the "proper size wheel". Im not saying massive wheels is better, but with the correct designed and forged wheel in a 19/20 i don't see any problems with performance. If 20 really hurt performance they wouldn't be on new 991's, 918, koenigsegg's, 458, etc from the factory. I for one prefer the look of a 19 wheel over a 20 but i dont think the right 20 wheel looks bad at all if done right. My 997 have 18's on it and hate the look and will get rid of them soon. Looks way to small on the 997 body. Again my opinion.
Yes, they are moving from 13" to 18". When was the last time you saw a road car with 13s? My 1971 Fiat has 13s. That car is soon to be 50 years old. They gain the advantage of bigger brakes and a final setup with reasonably stiff sidewalls.
I added a winter set recently on BBS SR in 18". The ride is much quieter and they certainly don't seem any slower than the factory 19 SIIs that came with the car. I did go from a 305 to a 265 on the rear and it is a little easier to break them loose on the dry. A forged lightweight 18 would be a really nice summer setup.
Never met a purists I enjoyed talking with as much as a real enthusiast. Real enthusiasts tend to respect all things done by other car owners wether their taste or not. May not be what they like, what they would do, how they would spend their money but they respect it.
You see enthusiasts have class.....something purists just sometimes (cough cough most of time sniffle sniffle) can lack. Personally, I would never ever own a stock car. (EVER, I have a disease to
mod, may start a support group for it) But when I see an owner loving his stocker at a car show or other I make sure to leave them with a positive vibe maybe suggesting how clean there car looks....or other.
I digress as I know this is more about wheel size vs purist/mods but strikingly close as many of that same camp seem to align with the purist view. Keep it as it came from the all mighty factory!
You never really know what made a car guy who they are. Maybe it’s budget, maybe it’s a trend past on by a family member or maybe it’s a way for someone to be different or keep something in their life controlled /as is. (Stock).
What ever the difference remember it’s all good....
Want the gloves off? Ok, here goes. Two kinds of porsche 997 owners out there. Happy ones with 20+’ wheels and unhappy ones with anything less then 20+’ wheels. Ahahahahaha a joke.
The same people that hate on 20s are the ones that think your going to loose control of your car heading to the grocery store based on a simple aero change made on a 997 wether a wing added, a chin spoiler swap not balances in the rear or what ever else. God forbid u make a change to the absolute most perfect car made by the most perfect company your gonna compromise resale and then likely be called a ricer by our fellow purist owners.
Bahahahahah
now Bruce put down the scotch and go to bed
cheers
Shouldn't a ~realenthusiast~ also respect the approach and desires of the purist?
And I don't think anyone is saying you'll spin out on the way to the grocery store. Most just feel that they're ugly, or that the (typically) greater rotational mass will make the car slower to accelerate, or the thinner tires make the ride harsher.
Sort of skimmed through the Road & Track commentary so I may have missed something but didn't they focus entirely on wheel and tire size in terms of performance? What about cast vs. forged? Take a 19" 997 wheel as an example. You can shed more than 10 lbs.of unsprung weight on each corner of the car with a good quality forged wheel vs. a cheap cast wheel and just slightly less than that just by replacing cast stock wheels with high end forged wheels. So not just a matter of 17", 18", 19" or 20". At least not the way I see it.
Sort of skimmed through the Road & Track commentary so I may have missed something but didn't they focus entirely on wheel and tire size in terms of performance? What about cast vs. forged? Take a 19" 997 wheel as an example. You can shed more than 10 lbs.of unsprung weight on each corner of the car with a good quality forged wheel vs. a cheap cast wheel and just slightly less than that just by replacing cast stock wheels with high end forged wheels. So not just a matter of 17", 18", 19" or 20". At least not the way I see it.
True, its about overall weight, but if you stay with the same wheel type (cast, forged) the lightest wheel/tire combination should be around the 18 inch mark as the bigger the wheel you are adding more material around the perimeter of the bigger rim size.
Interestingly F1 is going to 18 inch rims not for performance reasons but to follow the fashion of bigger rims on street cars......its going to be interesting as they get a lot of 'suspension' compliance from the sidewalls on those tires....
As with all things, there has to be a balance reached - for the wheel topic, that balance is looks & performance. The wheel debate will continue forever because people's tastes and what's important to them are different. To me personally, I like 19" wheels on a 997 and where the wheel / tire setup is flush to the fender. As a general rule for me, visually 18s look too small and 20s look too big, however, there are exceptions and mickfluff's 20s work great on his car and ATSR's 18s work extremely well with is more retro theme.
Going from a stock Porsche 18" wheel to a high-end, fully forged 19" aftermarket wheel is a performance upgrade because of the weight savings in unsprung weight. If that same aftermarket wheel was also available in an 18" diameter, would that be a better choice - ahh, that's where the balance comes back in - for me, no, because I like 19" wheels on a 997. Would the 18s with taller sidewalls ride better, would the car handle better, accelerate better, who knows, maybe a little bit, but would it be enough to really make a difference with any of us driving - probably not, and I personally would give up that "little" for the aesthetic look that I like when I look at my car. What I really don't like is when the rim of the wheel sticks out past the tire (stretched look) or when the whole wheel/tire setup sticks out past the fender line (poke look).
The only argument that really holds up for going to a larger wheel from a smaller wheel is for braking performance. The larger wheel affords a larger caliper and rotor combination which provides for a larger caliper (likely 6-piston), more pad surface to rotor swept area for greater stopping power, and most importatntly with tradition iron rotors, a larger heat sink to prevent warpage and repeated threshold braking applications, like on a track. This argument works for the 18" to 19" argument as Porsche 380-410mm front brakes from the the GT cars don't fit inside 18" wheels, but do inside 19s. On a 997, that argument doesn't hold up for the 19" to 20" wheel upgrade as those brake options do fit in a 19" wheel and I can't imagine needing more braking capability than a 410mm rotor with 6-piston caliper can afford, and if you do, you could always switch to a PCCB setup, which is lighter yet again.
I can tell you that changing the wheels and brakes that my car came with to the current setup made a huge difference in handling behavior and steering feel. When I bought it, a PO had chromed RUF wheels on it (yes, chromed, not poished) and it has the standard C2S big red brakes.
to the current setup which is PCCBs with Forgeline wheels. I didn't weight the brake components when I swapped them, but the wheel change by itself saved me 10 lbs per corner, and I'd bet the brakes, even with the larger caliper, were another 5-10 per corner.
PCCB Caliper to inner barrel clearance (350mm PCCB rotors)
PCCB Caliper to wheel spoke clearance (but I also had Forgeline try to create as much spoke concavity as possible)
This is my definition of proper wheel/tire fitment.
Interesting how folks take what is done over "there" and applies it to over "here"
F1 = Bigger tires........ therefore, must be better! Um.... using the Google, it appears that better is all related to selling consumer tires.
Pirelli has been pushing for this this for years: "The tyre manufacturer believes low-profile tyres, which are already used in the WEC and Formula E, have more in common with road car technology than the current 13-inch spec and would be better for marketing purposes."
The laws of physics (and I am a theorhetical partcile phisysst), dictate that a smaller radius will equal more torque (acceleration).... think of a smaller wheel against the ground like 1st gear against your drive shaft.
Interesting how folks take what is done over "there" and applies it to over "here"
F1 = Bigger tires........ therefore, must be better! Um.... using the Google, it appears that better is all related to selling consumer tires.
Pirelli has been pushing for this this for years: "The tyre manufacturer believes low-profile tyres, which are already used in the WEC and Formula E, have more in common with road car technology than the current 13-inch spec and would be better for marketing purposes."
The laws of physics (and I am a theorhetical partcile phisysst), dictate that a smaller radius will equal more torque (acceleration).... think of a smaller wheel against the ground like 1st gear against your drive shaft.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
The above is more in-line with gearing. This line of thinking/calculating has nothing to do with wheel size; you are addressing outer tire circumference/total tire diameter. Smaller outer circumference of tire (regardless of wheel size) yields increase in torque and decease in top end speed - tire size 101.
What this thread is looking at is opinions on unsprung and rotational mass vs aesthetics.
You have to look at actual tire temps and determine from there. 99% of the people here probably wouldn’t get a rear 265 up to temps that would require a wider tire on the track. On the street if you’re getting tires that hot, you should spend a night behind bars.
11-27-2018, 07:22 PM
