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Project Dora: A 997 version of the 911 R!

Old 11-01-2018, 04:06 PM
  #46  
qikqbn
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Kudos to you for doing this right and using oem performance parts. I know this is not cheap, but one great way to upgrade your 997 into something very special. This is more or less exactly what I plan on doing to my 997.1 when I think it is time to refresh and rebuild. Possibly around the 100k mark, I am at 77k now. I absolutely love my car and have no plans on selling it. The best TLC you could give to a long time faithful ride is a fresh engine rebuild done right. I have seen these builds putting closer to 380 down at the wheels, which would be between 440 hp - 450 hp. The Torque is not turbo torque, but for NA motors, the torque is a nice bump with the 4.0. Can't wait to see it all done!!

Ps... Correction... the dyno reading I saw showing 384, may in fact be corrected for at the crank... If so, then I was way off.... Still, looking forward to seeing your results and hoping to see anywhere from 35-45 hp bump, but lot's of torque as well.

Last edited by qikqbn; 11-02-2018 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 11-01-2018, 06:03 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by qikqbn View Post
Kudos to you for doing this right and using oem performance parts. I know this is not cheap, but one great way to upgrade your 997 into something very special. This is more or less exactly what I plan on doing to my 997.1 when I think it is time to refresh and rebuild. Possibly around the 100k mark, I am at 77k now. I absolutely love my car and have no plans on selling it. The best TLC you could give to a long time faithful ride is a fresh engine rebuild done right. I have seen these builds putting closer to 380 down at the wheels, which would be between 440 hp - 450 hp. The Torque is not turbo torque, but for NA motors, the torque is a nice bump with the 4.0. Can't wait to see it all done!!
May i ask where you have seen a 4L build putting down 440-450 HP?

Cheers
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:33 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by JABowders View Post
Cool, looking forward to seeing it. Great looking wheels BTW.
Forgeline VX1. About half the weight of the OEM Porsche wheels and strong enough for the occasional AX or track day I do.
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Old 11-01-2018, 09:30 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by vern1 View Post
May i ask where you have seen a 4L build putting down 440-450 HP?

Cheers
I saw this vid many years ago. I was remembering this video that showed a dyno result of 384 hp and they had a follow up car in another vid of 379 hp dyno. Based on dyno results that would equal 440-450 hp...
Here is the rub, based on seeing the dyno figures and assuming it was wheel horsepower that is where I had assumed the numbers.
Looks like they adjusted dyno to read crank Horsepower, which bums me out.

After checking out their website they are advertising their kit to give
2008 Porsche 997S
Engine M97.01 3.8L

RSP Conversion 4.0L
Max HP [email protected]
Max Torque 343 ft/[email protected]

Modifications
• Complete engine rebuild & displacement upgrade from 3.8L to 4.0L.
• Stainless steel exhaust.
• High flow sport catalyst converter.
• BMC high flow air filter.
• RSP custom dyno tune,re-programming OEM DME
• Emission test approved.

The 384 Hp , if that is indeed at the crank, seems very low to me considering the mods. A 200 cc bump should be good for at least 40-50 hp if done right.
The Torque numbers are what impresses me, but was hoping for a higher hp number considering what other Porsche 4.0 liters are putting out from factory.



Last edited by qikqbn; 11-01-2018 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 11-01-2018, 10:24 PM
  #50  
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A factory X51 car makes 381bhp. You're adding X51 hardware and then some.
I'd say don't worry about it, you should be making well over 400bhp.

Love the car, BTW. I was thinking along the same lines for visual upgrades. My factory X51 car may get a 4L upgrade some day too.
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Old 11-01-2018, 10:56 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by srcn View Post
A factory X51 car makes 381bhp. You're adding X51 hardware and then some.
I'd say don't worry about it, you should be making well over 400bhp.

Love the car, BTW. I was thinking along the same lines for visual upgrades. My factory X51 car may get a 4L upgrade some day too.
Thanks for the support. Hahahahaha! There it is... 300 hp at the wheel. This build is kinda like admitting I have a problem and need Viagra. As long as I get 400 or more...
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Old 11-02-2018, 05:17 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by qikqbn View Post
I saw this vid many years ago. I was remembering this video that showed a dyno result of 384 hp and they had a follow up car in another vid of 379 hp dyno. Based on dyno results that would equal 440-450 hp...
Here is the rub, based on seeing the dyno figures and assuming it was wheel horsepower that is where I had assumed the numbers.
Looks like they adjusted dyno to read crank Horsepower, which bums me out.

After checking out their website they are advertising their kit to give
2008 Porsche 997S
Engine M97.01 3.8L

RSP Conversion 4.0L
Max HP [email protected]
Max Torque 343 ft/[email protected]

Modifications
• Complete engine rebuild & displacement upgrade from 3.8L to 4.0L.
• Stainless steel exhaust.
• High flow sport catalyst converter.
• BMC high flow air filter.
• RSP custom dyno tune,re-programming OEM DME
• Emission test approved.

The 384 Hp , if that is indeed at the crank, seems very low to me considering the mods. A 200 cc bump should be good for at least 40-50 hp if done right.
The Torque numbers are what impresses me, but was hoping for a higher hp number considering what other Porsche 4.0 liters are putting out from factory.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvRezEfHKLU
Thanks, interesting. That does seem conservative but a dyno is a dyno. Will be interesting to see what comes out of this build. Will get mine dynod at some point just out of curiosity.
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Old 11-03-2018, 08:24 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by srcn View Post
A factory X51 car makes 381bhp. You're adding X51 hardware and then some.
I'd say don't worry about it, you should be making well over 400bhp.

Love the car, BTW. I was thinking along the same lines for visual upgrades. My factory X51 car may get a 4L upgrade some day too.
I have seen the future and it is turbocharged. Personally, I think the M97 engine will be the epitome of atmospheric non-GT3 flat six Porsche engines. That rules out a lot of amazing engines- acknowledged. But that is why I decided to go with these mods at about 75,000 miles. We have a good baseline of 300 whp for Dora. Let’s see what TPC can measure after everything is complete and apply 15%- can we agree on that?- for the conversion from whp to bhp and see where we are.
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Old 11-04-2018, 01:00 PM
  #54  
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Im following this build, I've done a 4.0L bore as well...384hp at the crank is too low from what I can tell as well... with those mods. Im betting you'll end up 420ish
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Old 11-04-2018, 03:28 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Hammerman501 View Post

Personally, I think the M97 engine will be the epitome of atmospheric non-GT3 flat six Porsche engines. That rules out a lot of amazing engines- acknowledged.
If the M97 is the epitome of engines then Porsche is in deep crap!! People are doing these type of upgrades mostly because their engines blew up, not because they want to. Combined with the IMS issue i would consider these engines to be a very poor performance from Porsche
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Old 11-04-2018, 03:31 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by DrJordan1911 View Post
Im following this build, I've done a 4.0L bore as well...384hp at the crank is too low from what I can tell as well... with those mods. Im betting you'll end up 420ish
Dont think i have seen anyone with a 4L rebuild who has done a dyno (other than the one listed above), myself included. Would be nice to start seeing some empirical evidence of what this mod actually produces.
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Old 11-05-2018, 09:13 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by vern1 View Post
If the M97 is the epitome of engines then Porsche is in deep crap!! People are doing these type of upgrades mostly because their engines blew up, not because they want to. Combined with the IMS issue i would consider these engines to be a very poor performance from Porsche
I appreciate where you are coming from when you had to spend upwards of $30k to replace an engine (with a great high performance upgrade). The percentages with IMS problems before the upgraded by Porsche is still very low. But when you are in the low percentage group, it still stings. Frequent oil changes, keeping the revs in check when the engine (and outside temps) are cold, and not hitting redlines frequently does manage the risks.
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Old 11-05-2018, 10:53 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by mjsporsche View Post
I appreciate where you are coming from when you had to spend upwards of $30k to replace an engine (with a great high performance upgrade). The percentages with IMS problems before the upgraded by Porsche is still very low. But when you are in the low percentage group, it still stings. Frequent oil changes, keeping the revs in check when the engine (and outside temps) are cold, and not hitting redlines frequently does manage the risks.
And it frequently doesnt manage the risk. I have heard this before as people seem to take some kind of false comfort in this when they fire up the car but i did all these things (as have others) and it made no difference. I have also heard all these rationalizations before (its a low percentage group etc) but the fact is, these are serious engineering failures. Am not sure if you are defending the M97 engine or not?

Regardless, from my perspective, to call the M97 the epitome of NA Porsche engines is laughable. The 9A1 in the 997.2 appears to be a much better engine if you are going to pick a 997. But no way the M97

I am looking forward to seeing how this build turns out but as i said, not many people voluntarily go down this path
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Old 11-05-2018, 01:01 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by vern1 View Post
Regardless, from my perspective, to call the M97 the epitome of NA Porsche engines is laughable. The 9A1 in the 997.2 appears to be a much better engine if you are going to pick a 997. But no way the M97

+1

I've now heard it all, here on Rennlist. Looking forward to seeing how 9A2 stacks up vs 9A1. M97 is a low point, hopefully the defining low point in relatively modern Porsche engine design.
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Old 11-06-2018, 06:25 PM
  #60  
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This looks like a great build. BTW, what is the rear bumper that's on the car now? That's something like what I have been thinking about for my '06 C2S
I really appreciate going with no wing--I'm not against them per se, just seems that for what your doing the bare rear end is a great choice.
G
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