Upgrade 997 to 4.0
06-12-2018, 11:24 AM
#16
Drifting
So your dating a super model and your thinking about upsetting that to have an affair with your mail carrier?
Seek help.
Your car sounds perfect, as is. Don't bust it up, what's working.
Faster? Absolute power, corrupts absolutely. You have 3.8, you think 4.1 will make you happy, then you'll want a 6.o V8.
Crack the window, and listen.
I remember wishing for 3 digit hp?
FM radio, front vented rotors, power windows, sunroof.
Love the one your with...
Seek help.
Your car sounds perfect, as is. Don't bust it up, what's working.
Faster? Absolute power, corrupts absolutely. You have 3.8, you think 4.1 will make you happy, then you'll want a 6.o V8.
Crack the window, and listen.
I remember wishing for 3 digit hp?
FM radio, front vented rotors, power windows, sunroof.
Love the one your with...
06-12-2018, 11:40 AM
#17
Rennlist Member
Love the one your with...Great!! Where would you that power anyways? On a track? Unlikely you are thinking about track since even extra 100hp makes very little difference. It is all about a pilot, setup, and tires.
06-12-2018, 12:08 PM
#18
Instructor
I completely agree with kisik's comment above. I have a 997.2 Carrera (3.6 L) that I track. At my last track event, I hired a pro-driver to coach me and was amazed at what he was able to do with my car around the track. That was an eye opening experience for me, as I mainly use my car on the track. There is no need for more power, handling, mods etc until one can fully utilize what the car is capable of.
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frederickcook87 (12-27-2022)
06-12-2018, 01:04 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
looks like there are some significant differences between .1 & .2..Here is a more thorough explanation after digging a bit:
https://www.porscheengineering.com/f...ne-02-2012.pdf
06-12-2018, 04:14 PM
#20
Well, thank you all for the excellent perspectives you have all provided.
You have certainly got the thinking hard about what I do here.
I did look at 997 GT3 cars, and they are A LOT more expensive than upgrading my car to a 4.0 engine.
It seems that GT3's have become more expensive recently, because I remember a year or two ago seeing nice examples for pretty reasonable money.
In any case, the character of a GT3 engine just doesn't suit the roads around here, not enough opportunity to stay in the power band all the time.
Of course, this is different for the 991.2 which has much more of torque across the rev range.
The turbo option still isn't for me, I really enjoy an NA car, the very linear power delivery and the frenetic race to the limiter in the last 1000 rpm (as well as the howl that goes with it), are just sublime.
For the kind of roads that are close to my home, the car feels about right to maybe a little bit underpowered, hence I was thinking of the upgrade.
I have other more powerful cars, and I disagree with the notion that more horsepower is never enough. That may be true at the drag strip, but otherwise, it all depends upon which roads you drive regularly on.
There are certain tight twisty roads, where more powerful cars never seem to get into the zone, it's harder to stay in their power band (for all except 1 or 2 gears) and it really takes the fun out of it.
The current car is really sweet, and I felt the upgrade would be an incremental improvement.
I certainly appreciate the advice around keeping what I have and just enjoying it, don't get me wrong, it is huge fun as only a 911 can be.
With it being an M97, and with all the reading I have done around IMS (less of an issue), bore scoring (more likely) and sleeve cracking, I find myself alway listening for different sounds and generally watching out for signs of problems - this really does detract from the fun.
It's the modest improvement in power (torque mainly) and not having to worry about engine issues again that pushed me in this direction.
I can pay ~$30k, do an upgrade now and enjoy the hell out of the car without worrying about potential issues OR I can wait for the things to go wrong in the future, potentially pay more (new crank etc) but then off course, give the car a new lease of life.
However, given all your input (and with only 30k miles/careful maintenance), it's unlikely that anything will go wrong soon, so I should just enjoy it as is, and worry about problems only when they arise.
Really appreciate all the feedback, you are a great bunch!
Thank you!
You have certainly got the thinking hard about what I do here.
I did look at 997 GT3 cars, and they are A LOT more expensive than upgrading my car to a 4.0 engine.
It seems that GT3's have become more expensive recently, because I remember a year or two ago seeing nice examples for pretty reasonable money.
In any case, the character of a GT3 engine just doesn't suit the roads around here, not enough opportunity to stay in the power band all the time.
Of course, this is different for the 991.2 which has much more of torque across the rev range.
The turbo option still isn't for me, I really enjoy an NA car, the very linear power delivery and the frenetic race to the limiter in the last 1000 rpm (as well as the howl that goes with it), are just sublime.
For the kind of roads that are close to my home, the car feels about right to maybe a little bit underpowered, hence I was thinking of the upgrade.
I have other more powerful cars, and I disagree with the notion that more horsepower is never enough. That may be true at the drag strip, but otherwise, it all depends upon which roads you drive regularly on.
There are certain tight twisty roads, where more powerful cars never seem to get into the zone, it's harder to stay in their power band (for all except 1 or 2 gears) and it really takes the fun out of it.
The current car is really sweet, and I felt the upgrade would be an incremental improvement.
I certainly appreciate the advice around keeping what I have and just enjoying it, don't get me wrong, it is huge fun as only a 911 can be.
With it being an M97, and with all the reading I have done around IMS (less of an issue), bore scoring (more likely) and sleeve cracking, I find myself alway listening for different sounds and generally watching out for signs of problems - this really does detract from the fun.
It's the modest improvement in power (torque mainly) and not having to worry about engine issues again that pushed me in this direction.
I can pay ~$30k, do an upgrade now and enjoy the hell out of the car without worrying about potential issues OR I can wait for the things to go wrong in the future, potentially pay more (new crank etc) but then off course, give the car a new lease of life.
However, given all your input (and with only 30k miles/careful maintenance), it's unlikely that anything will go wrong soon, so I should just enjoy it as is, and worry about problems only when they arise.
Really appreciate all the feedback, you are a great bunch!
Thank you!
Last edited by 997gr8; 06-12-2018 at 04:34 PM.
06-12-2018, 10:34 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
Those are my thoughts exactly.
Don't need more power, want more power.
Love my '11 .2c2s very much, got it with 17k on it and CPO'd, arctic silver with a dark blue interior and a 6spd. I'm not in need of much in this car right now, but i know what your talking about. 25k +/- for an upgrade in a car worth 45k +/- (priceless to you maybe) to get comfortable GT3 like performance (gt3's are nice btw, but on our CA roads, jeez). A good GT3 997 (.1 or .2) is bank right know. I bought my car for 59k and its still the going rate for the car in my condition, plus 25k for an awesome engine, 84k all in, still ahead of the curve.
I love these cars and the options we have.
But in the end, either way you can't lose. Good luck, if you do, please post build thread, many of us out here watching with popcorn in hand, cheers, mike
Don't need more power, want more power.
Love my '11 .2c2s very much, got it with 17k on it and CPO'd, arctic silver with a dark blue interior and a 6spd. I'm not in need of much in this car right now, but i know what your talking about. 25k +/- for an upgrade in a car worth 45k +/- (priceless to you maybe) to get comfortable GT3 like performance (gt3's are nice btw, but on our CA roads, jeez). A good GT3 997 (.1 or .2) is bank right know. I bought my car for 59k and its still the going rate for the car in my condition, plus 25k for an awesome engine, 84k all in, still ahead of the curve.
I love these cars and the options we have.
But in the end, either way you can't lose. Good luck, if you do, please post build thread, many of us out here watching with popcorn in hand, cheers, mike
06-14-2018, 12:40 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
06-17-2018, 01:47 PM
#26
Former Vendor
We often use the factory X51 engines for our builds to 4.0, and up to 4.4L
We often utilize the X51 cylinder head cores, and create our R51 heads from them. With larger bowl areas, and larger valve sizes, and modified bifurcation points, we can often increase their port flow by 10-12% without losing port velocity. More is a possibility with a loss of port velocity, but generally we won’t compromise just to make bigger peak numbers..
The same goes with the X51 cams, altering their cam timing events can make bigger gains with the R51 port profiles..
Its all in the combo, the X51 parts aren’t magical here... In fact we can apply the same R51 port profiles to base Carrera cylinder heads, and make the same power, and sometimes wih less effort. We don’t get mystified over factory performance parts, we make performance the old fashioned American way....Proudly.
We often utilize the X51 cylinder head cores, and create our R51 heads from them. With larger bowl areas, and larger valve sizes, and modified bifurcation points, we can often increase their port flow by 10-12% without losing port velocity. More is a possibility with a loss of port velocity, but generally we won’t compromise just to make bigger peak numbers..
The same goes with the X51 cams, altering their cam timing events can make bigger gains with the R51 port profiles..
Its all in the combo, the X51 parts aren’t magical here... In fact we can apply the same R51 port profiles to base Carrera cylinder heads, and make the same power, and sometimes wih less effort. We don’t get mystified over factory performance parts, we make performance the old fashioned American way....Proudly.
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gcbpt (09-20-2021)
