Black soot in a spark plug hole... what is this?
11-24-2017, 01:26 PM
#16
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Plugs look fine. Well, the discoloration is quite a bit higher up the threads than I am used to seeing. Did you run the plugs "too long"?
Anyhow, a bit of variabilty is normal. IOWs, the plugs won't look the same.
Absent any untoward engine behavior, or a CEL, there's no need for a compression test. The DME constantly monitors the output of each cylinder. If it gets too low (or too high) a misfire error code is logged and the CEL turned on.
The short trip usage accounts for the build up of carbon/soot. Even though I use my cars for work commute which has me driving 30 miles each way a day the times I drive my cars longer distances: ~50 miles or more; the engines run noticably better. So it is not surprising that your usage has the engine showing signs of accumulating combustion chamber deposits.
(In some cases the usage leads to a heavy build up of deposits. The car is parked. Over time the deposit layer loosens and then the next time the engine is started a piece of this falls loose in the combustion chamber. This can momentarily cause misfires, or even a "ticking" noise if some of the deposit material gets caught between a valve and valve seat.)
You can use Techron if you want. But a good long drive -- ~50 miles or so -- at freeway speed is all the engine needs. 'course, if you resume the short trip usage the engine deposit build up also resumes.
A problem with Techron is it increases oil contamination and to "combat" this the general recommendation is to if one uses Techron to after almost alll of the gasoline with Techron added is used up to then change the oil.
Might mention after a tank or two of Chevron Supreme (with Techron) my Boxster engine was running noticeably better even though my usage stayed the same after I switched from Shell V-Power to Chevron Surpreme. The Techron on the Chevron gasoline was the difference. So you can get the benefit of Techon without having to add any to the fuel tank if you have a Chevron station handy. Just fill up the gasoline tank with Chevron Supreme once in a while.
Anyhow, a bit of variabilty is normal. IOWs, the plugs won't look the same.
Absent any untoward engine behavior, or a CEL, there's no need for a compression test. The DME constantly monitors the output of each cylinder. If it gets too low (or too high) a misfire error code is logged and the CEL turned on.
The short trip usage accounts for the build up of carbon/soot. Even though I use my cars for work commute which has me driving 30 miles each way a day the times I drive my cars longer distances: ~50 miles or more; the engines run noticably better. So it is not surprising that your usage has the engine showing signs of accumulating combustion chamber deposits.
(In some cases the usage leads to a heavy build up of deposits. The car is parked. Over time the deposit layer loosens and then the next time the engine is started a piece of this falls loose in the combustion chamber. This can momentarily cause misfires, or even a "ticking" noise if some of the deposit material gets caught between a valve and valve seat.)
You can use Techron if you want. But a good long drive -- ~50 miles or so -- at freeway speed is all the engine needs. 'course, if you resume the short trip usage the engine deposit build up also resumes.
A problem with Techron is it increases oil contamination and to "combat" this the general recommendation is to if one uses Techron to after almost alll of the gasoline with Techron added is used up to then change the oil.
Might mention after a tank or two of Chevron Supreme (with Techron) my Boxster engine was running noticeably better even though my usage stayed the same after I switched from Shell V-Power to Chevron Surpreme. The Techron on the Chevron gasoline was the difference. So you can get the benefit of Techon without having to add any to the fuel tank if you have a Chevron station handy. Just fill up the gasoline tank with Chevron Supreme once in a while.
What gives me the ******* is the inconsistency... One is really different.
I saved the plugs from my last two changes, and they are cinnamon and these plugs show carbon., consistent with short trips.
I do a plug change like clockwork every 40k per my manual.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
11-24-2017, 05:00 PM
#17
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Update....
I spoke to my friend at Ford.... he thinks I should just forget about it.... and give it an Italian tune up.... and since I am doing short trips, use the best gas (it is the additives, not the gas itself). He thinks it may be a coil pack is going on the one plug... but not to worry... just drive until it throws a code. Not worth replacing the packs. He said if I am really annoyed by this, than just replace the packs and be done with it.... except it is just so much work taking the car apart to do this.
Pelican sells the Beru OEM packs for $38 each ($228 tot), or the Porsche part (Beru) for $59 each ($354 tot).
So.... I think I will forget about it....... if I can.... those darn voices in my head again.....what? No... really? Buy them today?
Peace
Bruce In Philly
I spoke to my friend at Ford.... he thinks I should just forget about it.... and give it an Italian tune up.... and since I am doing short trips, use the best gas (it is the additives, not the gas itself). He thinks it may be a coil pack is going on the one plug... but not to worry... just drive until it throws a code. Not worth replacing the packs. He said if I am really annoyed by this, than just replace the packs and be done with it.... except it is just so much work taking the car apart to do this.
Pelican sells the Beru OEM packs for $38 each ($228 tot), or the Porsche part (Beru) for $59 each ($354 tot).
So.... I think I will forget about it....... if I can.... those darn voices in my head again.....what? No... really? Buy them today?
Peace
Bruce In Philly
11-24-2017, 05:20 PM
#18
I used to be the environmental attorney for a bunch of refineries and the chemist was a good friend and client. The consensus was that good gas, with Techron, paid off in the long run with fuel injected cars. Now that I think about it, I'm outta here to put a bottle in my Cayenne as I have a long drive this evening.
11-24-2017, 06:17 PM
#19
Swapped plugs this morning. 2010 C4S at 104,914 miles. Embarrassed to say 63K plus since the last time I changed these.
From Ford Forums I've become nervous numbering cylinders (it's an opinion on a Ford rather than a fact). So the plugs are labeled for left right and front middle rear.
These are a bit dirtier than the originals that I changed at 41,718 miles. But they have more miles.
I use Chevron 95% plus of the time, FWIW. Shell gets used on the rare occasion.
I have yet to burn any measurable amount of oil between my 5K oil changes. Mobil One 0-40. San Francisco Bay area so temperate climate.
Average day is 25 miles twice commuting to and from work. Freeway, generally under 3K rpm. So the car barely warms up.
On good days I take the long way to work and log 60 miles mostly over 5K. But it's been a while.
Two (or was it three?) weeks ago we headed up the coast, but frequent stops broke up the warming.
It was 7 weeks ago that I drove to Vegas and that was the last serious workout.
So I expected a bit of soot.
Tapping the plugs resulted in a bit of very fine soot falling out (see the pictures). But this was miniscule.
The threads vary in darkness. The tips are fairly consistent.
As the last time, there was creaking during removal. But these came out more easily, I think.
The rock in the photo is chip seal from a Utah Canyon Yellowstone trip 18 months ago. I'm still hating Idaho! I pulled several buckets of stones from the undercarriage after the event, but suffered a ripped axle boot in the meantime. The stone fell from the top half of the heat shield and wedged into the bottom half (driver's side) out of reach. This prevented the shield from mating to the engine block for reassembly. I had to get the bottom half off to remove the stone ... there is a bolt held captive by the cat. This added an hour to the job. So the full swap took three.
One last mention ... I'm still on the original coils.
Bruce ... Marc is right. Go out and drive ... enjoy!!!
From Ford Forums I've become nervous numbering cylinders (it's an opinion on a Ford rather than a fact). So the plugs are labeled for left right and front middle rear.
These are a bit dirtier than the originals that I changed at 41,718 miles. But they have more miles.
I use Chevron 95% plus of the time, FWIW. Shell gets used on the rare occasion.
I have yet to burn any measurable amount of oil between my 5K oil changes. Mobil One 0-40. San Francisco Bay area so temperate climate.
Average day is 25 miles twice commuting to and from work. Freeway, generally under 3K rpm. So the car barely warms up.
On good days I take the long way to work and log 60 miles mostly over 5K. But it's been a while.
Two (or was it three?) weeks ago we headed up the coast, but frequent stops broke up the warming.
It was 7 weeks ago that I drove to Vegas and that was the last serious workout.
So I expected a bit of soot.
Tapping the plugs resulted in a bit of very fine soot falling out (see the pictures). But this was miniscule.
The threads vary in darkness. The tips are fairly consistent.
As the last time, there was creaking during removal. But these came out more easily, I think.
The rock in the photo is chip seal from a Utah Canyon Yellowstone trip 18 months ago. I'm still hating Idaho! I pulled several buckets of stones from the undercarriage after the event, but suffered a ripped axle boot in the meantime. The stone fell from the top half of the heat shield and wedged into the bottom half (driver's side) out of reach. This prevented the shield from mating to the engine block for reassembly. I had to get the bottom half off to remove the stone ... there is a bolt held captive by the cat. This added an hour to the job. So the full swap took three.
One last mention ... I'm still on the original coils.
Bruce ... Marc is right. Go out and drive ... enjoy!!!
11-25-2017, 11:43 AM
#20
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Amazing!
11-25-2017, 02:51 PM
#21
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Thanx Wayne,
Looks like you have a renegade plug like mine. Right Middle...... did you look at the tip of this and compare it to the others? Is the electrode larger on the renegade than the others?
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Looks like you have a renegade plug like mine. Right Middle...... did you look at the tip of this and compare it to the others? Is the electrode larger on the renegade than the others?
Peace
Bruce in Philly
11-25-2017, 02:55 PM
#22
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That Plug #3 looks like mine..... nice to know this is not uncommon. For me, it would be plug #6 (passenger, forward plug).
Peace
Bruce in Philly
11-26-2017, 12:06 AM
#23
See the attached picture. Mechanical wear on the tips is similar. I've ordered the plugs per insulator color. Left to right they are ...
Right rear, right front, left middle, left rear, right middle, and left front.
The biggest difference is on thread color. The right middle is definitely darker and the left front is just a bit darker (than the others).
Aluminum heads, creaking noises on removal, possibly compromising the threads ... if I was going to guess, the threads aren't sealing as well on the right middle and the darker threads indicate this.
But, IMHO, at the mileage, there isn't a lot of other difference.
Right rear, right front, left middle, left rear, right middle, and left front.
The biggest difference is on thread color. The right middle is definitely darker and the left front is just a bit darker (than the others).
Aluminum heads, creaking noises on removal, possibly compromising the threads ... if I was going to guess, the threads aren't sealing as well on the right middle and the darker threads indicate this.
But, IMHO, at the mileage, there isn't a lot of other difference.
11-27-2017, 07:53 PM
#25
11-27-2017, 08:17 PM
#26
PS Bruce ... Thanks for giving me cause to get off my lazy behind and get my plugs changed. FWIW, no discernible difference in performance or mpg at this point.
08-06-2019, 06:41 PM
#28
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See the attached picture. Mechanical wear on the tips is similar. I've ordered the plugs per insulator color. Left to right they are ...
Right rear, right front, left middle, left rear, right middle, and left front.
The biggest difference is on thread color. The right middle is definitely darker and the left front is just a bit darker (than the others).
Aluminum heads, creaking noises on removal, possibly compromising the threads ... if I was going to guess, the threads aren't sealing as well on the right middle and the darker threads indicate this.
But, IMHO, at the mileage, there isn't a lot of other difference.
Right rear, right front, left middle, left rear, right middle, and left front.
The biggest difference is on thread color. The right middle is definitely darker and the left front is just a bit darker (than the others).
Aluminum heads, creaking noises on removal, possibly compromising the threads ... if I was going to guess, the threads aren't sealing as well on the right middle and the darker threads indicate this.
But, IMHO, at the mileage, there isn't a lot of other difference.
Wayne, looking at your plug photos, though "right middle" or #5 is the one with the darker threads, left front or #3 is actually the worst looking of the 6 plugs. It shows what looks like more electrode wear and also has a different coloring at the gaps between the electrodes. I bring this up, because DGraylings plug photos also show #3 to be different than the other 5 and it's possible the cylinder with the soot in the plug hole and the darker plug from Bruce's car could have also been #3. Seems like maybe there's a pattern starting to show up and it would be interesting to see if other 9A1 motors show the same patterning on #3. I think it was Hartech that said when they see scoring or seizing on the 9A1, it's usually on bank 1 and I think cylinder #3, but sometimes #1. I can't remember which cylinder in Bronz's car was the one that failed - for some reason I'm thinking it may have been #5, but if was #3, I'd find that interesting.